6G Celicas Forums

Hi all,

I have a 1995 ST, all stock on the engine side, fitted with ST205 (GT4) brake rotors and calipers, 17" wheels.

I've found for sale a 4th gen celica (AT16-) fitted with a 1997 JDM MR2 3SGTE stock engine and gearbox (including LSD). The only mod is a front mount intercooler. Other than that it is completely stock and I get the entire, complete, running car. The car itself is de-registered, so cannot be driven on the streets - hence sold as parts.

Is it possible to fit the above parts off the ST165 into my ST? Will this be a straight forward (or almost) swap?

I'm very very tempted as the asking price is good and, theoretically, I'll be getting a top notch engine but if parts won't fit or extensive mods are needed, then I'll be in trouble which I absolutely don't want.

This is the engine:



I'd appreciate any feedback and thanks in advance
Manos

Thank you all for the feedback. It means a lot to me that you took the time and effort to assist me.

On the engine front, and as I still haven't found what I'm looking for I've upped the ante a little:
I'm in talks with a guy who is selling a 4th gen celica (the first front-wheel-drive) fitted with a 1997 JDM MR2 3SGTE stock engine and gearbox. The only mod is a front mount intercooler. Other than that it is completely stock and I get the entire, complete, running car. He claims 260hp and limited slip diff, both of which I really like (although I find the 260hp figure a little optimistic - but still more than adequate).
Boys with toys...

Do you think this setup will work? I mean, the previous owners must have done all the work (MR2 to fwd celica) already and it will be a FWD to FWD conversion. I'd anticipate 4th and 6th gen celicas not to be that different (if at all ?).

Will this be a straight forward transplant?
(Should I start a separate thread for this?)

This is the engine:


(I did think of keeping the 4th gen as it is, but the car is de-registered permanently so can only be sold as parts.)

Thanks
Manos

Beams, yes. In fact I've found one at a very good price (engines over, say, 1.6 - 1.8lt are not selling well due to taxation - and we have a serious recession over here... - hence the low price). I haven't seen it up close or photos. It is being sold by a used spares shop who claims it is in very good condition. They wouldn't lie (not very much anyway) easily as they need their reputation so...
Trouble is the seller only sells the engine + ECU plus the gearbox. No harness, no axles, radiators, exhaust etc.
Independent sources (local "gurus") claim that axles and even the harness can be used (or be made to work) from any other 2.0lt Celica, however this sounds to me like an old wife's tale.

The Beams however would be a litle too exotic, meaning its maintenance and any repairs' costs I'd anticipate would be higher than the more sedate 3SGEs
I still believe the 178hp version would be best for my needs - if I can find one at a price I can pay...

Thank you all for your feedback.



Probably true, but V6's are not available over here...
So, it's either 3SGTE (over and above my budget) or 3SGE

Manos

Dear KAOS,

Many thanks for the quick - and very straight forward - response.
I've asked the seller to send me some additional photos and I hope to get them soon...
While on the phone I asked him and he insisted the engine came from a 6th gen celica, meaning it is the 3rd gen (with the 178 hp).
I'm confused. The price is right (and I'm in the correct mental state for the swap) but I'd prefer to know exactly what it is I'm buying...
I'll post more photos as (and if) I get them.

By the way, the 5S versions never came around here (tax reasons), so I guess it will either be my own (ST) axles, mounts etc or whatever I get with the engine.

Thanks again

Manos

Hi all,

I've been at this before, so I beg for yuor patience.

I'm looking into buying this 3SGE engine for my ST:

(This is the only photo I have at the moment).
Could someone please be so kind as to identify what generation it is?
It is advertised as having 178hp (suggesting it is gen3, but by the looks of it I cannot verify it against the photos shown here:




Also, I'm looking at what other parts I'll be needing for swapping it into my '95ST (with 7AFE motor), but cannot find anything straight forward about this issue.
Provided I get the entire engine + gearbox + harness + ECU, I think I'll also be needing new engine mounts, right? Will my axles (ST) do or will I need new ones?
Anything else?
(Yes, I have used both the search function on here and Google... )


Thanks a lot in advance for any insight, feedback and advice.
Manos

Thanks for the reply. I will be patient and wait for someone to chime in as you say.

In the meantime, I contacted the Dutch dealers of importperformanceparts.net who, in so many words, all but confirmed that (a) they cannot guarrantee what sort of power increase their kits will deliver and (b) it is indeed only the increase in C/R that will provide that increase.
On the above basis, if I go from 9.5:1 to 10.5:1 I should anticipate some 10% increase or 12 extra HP. Suddenly it doesn't sound like such a brilliant investment...
I'm for importperformanceparts.net themselves to respond and if things don't change significantly (and they shouldn't really...) then I might just go for the cheapest rebuild of the engine (general cleaning and replacement of rings etc consumables) and pretty much just refresh a stock engine.

Before anyone jumps on me, I do know very well that horsees (hp) aren't peanuts, they don't come for free, there is no magic and there are valid means of obtaining extra hp. I would like something like that though:
http://www.toyotanation.com/forum/130-7th-...-8-seconds.html
The responses on that thread were enthousiastic at best...

M.

Anyone?

Good day all,

I live in Athens, Greece and I have a '95 ST (7AFE motor) with just under 190.000 km on the clock. The engine is compltely stock other than a somewhat sporty (read: louder) muffler that was on the car when I got it.
I am considering rebuilding the engine in the very near future.
So I thought while I'm at it it might be a (very) good idea to get some extra hp out of it.
I'd neither want an engine swap nor fit a turbo.

I came accross the products of www.importperformanceparts.net - their "HP Engine Kits".

I think their asking prices are pretty good so I was tempted.
I looked however at the contents of their kits and they included:
Complete Gasket Set
MLS Head Gasket (their Dutch dealer sells copper gasket - is that any better?)
Wiseco Pistons - Your choice: (81, 81.5, 82mm bore and any comp ratio)
Performance Rings
Performance Wrist Pins
TOGA HP Main Bearings
TOGA HP Rod Bearings
Timing Belt
Freeze Plugs
Thrust Washers

From the above most of any hp upgrade would come from the raise in compression ratio. I mean they don't include anything concerning the intake, exhaust or engine management.

They don't advertize hp results, but they claim the customer should expect something like +40hp (MIN) and they advertize the results on their test car (a 1995 Acura LS 1.8, Stock HP 140) which resulted in +38hp with the engine kit alone (source: http://www.importperformanceparts.net/impo...pek-story.html)

Is this possible? I mean can you get some 35% more power just by increasing compression (I mean within driveable limits)? Even if compression is increased to 10.5 or even 11:1 (gasoline in my country has minimum 93 RON), that would be some 10-15% above stock.

And can the stock engine management handle it?

Does anyone here have any experience with these kits? What is the consensus?



In addition with the above and as boys will always be boys... I thought, why not add a header, maybe a cold air intake and ... just ... maybe ... a pair of cams.
It was pretty difficult to find headers for the celica 7AFE, but I did find these:
DNA: http://www.amazon.com/COROLLA-CELICA-STAIN...E/dp/B00CO7A6Z6
and
OBX: http://www.2kracing.com/Product/18421.html

What do you think of them, any good?
(...obviously the DNA is considerably cheaper + wich free shipping to my door... tempting... very tempting...)
And can a Corolla 7AFE header fit and work on a Celica 7AFE engine?

I don't worry too much about the CAI as I did find some (albeit expessive) or I cound improvise along the DIY lines of this forum

If it was difficult to source headers, it was impossible to find any cams. I suppose I could buy a pair of secondhand ones and have them re-profiled here (we have a pretty good cam specialist here) - but really are there no cams out there for the 7AFE? And if I have stock cams reground - to what spec? Any ideas?

Coupled with the HP Engine Kits have mentioned above resulted in some crazy NA hp on Import Performance Parts' test car...


A lot of questions I know...

I'd appreciate your advice.

Thanks in advance
Manos

After a little search, it seems that the proper way to do things would be to swap the 2.0 or 2.2 box in. Apparently it can take the extra power and torque.
Now, on the basis that the 3SGTE can be made to work, does this not mean that you can (rather) easlily make a FWD or AWD celica RWD (with the propshaft and rear dif)?
I wonder if anyone has done this...


M.

This might sound like a daft question, but I might be excused for being a novice...:

What gearbox/transmission do FWD swapped-3SGTE celicas ST use? The standard ST isn't strong enough, the AWD box needs the center diff welded or it won't work, so is there something that will work easily?

Thanks,
M.

Thanks!!!

M.

Thanks for your responses.
Come to think of it, I should have asked how I can differentiate between the gen1-3 3SGE's, meaning the non-Beams engines.
I would have thought that the serial number of the engine would be a dead giveaway, but I've found no such information online...

Thanks again
Manos

Hi All,

I've come accross a guy who is selling a complete gen5 celica for a decent price. The car has been retro-fitted with a 2.0 lt engine and the seller says that it came off an MR-2 and develops 197hp. Based on this number, as stated, I guess this is the Beams engine. How can I be sure? I understand that Beams engines had "Beams" written on their valve cover, but is there another way to find out - say from the serial number? And how?

The price he's asking is rather ok, and I'd be interested in getting it even with the gen3 3SGE (177hp) but I wouldn't want to buy anything less than that.

How else can I be sure?


Thanks
Manos

Thanks to both of you and sorry for the late response.

I suppose I'll soon find out...

M.

Hi All,

I have a 1995 ST 1800cc (standard European edition, left hand drive - if that makes any difference).

I am planning to upgrade my front brakes to GT-4 315mm rotors and 4-pot calipers.

I am trying to find out whether I'll be needing a GT-4 master cylinder as well.
I have tried searching the forum, I think someone said that the ST master cylinder is adequate, but I only saw this one post.
Can someone with knowledge/experience please (re)confirm this?

If not, what are my options (other than GT-4)?
Can I just fit a master cylnder off anything bigger (such as, say, a Lexus for instance or a Land Cruiser) - or even another car altogether? Anyone knows what fits (or do they all fit, like on motorcycles)?

Also, to get things clear, even if the ST master cylinder is "adequate", how good is "adequate"? I mean, would the GT-4 piece make an improvement in braking over the ST one?


Thanks
Manos

The original post started ages ago, but I only read it now. Some thinks I fail to understand though:



How would this work?


Thanks
Manos

Hi All,

My 1995 ST has 17'' wheels with 35mm offset. I run 215/45/17 tires.

I'm contemplating lowering the car and fitting spacers to widen the track. This is mostly for the looks really, but I make every effort to convince myself that this will improve the handling; and I hope it does too - I'd really like to have a firm gokart-like ride if possible.

Anyway, I've read this thread (... not continuously though...) and basically copied the advise given to another member here with the same wheel/tire combination asking what spacers to fit. The answer was:
Front: 20mm
Rear: 37mm

So far so good - especially if someone could re-confirm this (please...?)

Now, if I also lower the car some 30-35mm all around, will the tires rub into the fenders? I'd expect this to be most dangerous during hard cornering. A little voice inside me tells me that the lowering springs would/should be stiffer and therefore the suspension at maximum compression (bottoming out) would/should be the same as stock. Am I right?
If not, does anyone know what the limit is in dropping the car?

I absolutely do not want to run stretched tires (for various reasons, mostly because I question their roadholding during cornering - and cornering is exceptionally important to me - and second because my tires are brand new anyways).

Rolling the rear fenders in gives me the creeps, but I suppose if I am to do this right, I'll roll them.

Any comments, ideas etc highly appreciated.

Thanks
Manos

PM'd you

I may be missing parts of this project but I think you are fitting GT4 brakes to a fwd ST/GT right?
What calipers are you using, GT4? The ones in the photo don't look to be 4-pot, are they?

Any way, please do post a how to, even if only to help one person in need (such as... me)
This forum has been a valuable source if information and inspiration and it would be. Shame to have any bit of knowledge gone to waste methinks.

M.

Also PM'd you...

M.

Ehm... nice but a little too low, innit?
It looks like driving a go cart (or sitting on a bentch...)
How does it corner?

Cool though...

M.

PM'd you

By the way, will the rotors and calipers fit my 1995 ST? I have 17'' wheels and I've already ordered a pair of GT-4 front knuckles.

Thanks
Manos

A few questions as I'm new to the world of celicas...:

1) Will these fit on a standard 1995 ST (1.8 lt, left hand drive)?

2) Is that 30.000 miles or kilometers?

3) Are these standard size/height or the car will be lowered - and if so, by how much?

4) I assume the shocks are not leaking, right? But just in case are these rebuildable?

I hope I'm not being silly asking the above but, like I said, I'm new here...

Thanks
Manos

Any photos of this?

M.