6G Celicas Forums

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You could build your own burien style basic kit. No need to go out and buy one... it has no intercooler, no percise fuel tuning and a t3 based turbo (the exact parts changed a bit over time)...

It was only intended for 5-7psi of boost, non intercooled ...

You'd need a basic turbo kit like the KO racing Street brawler T3 based kit.
Four 440cc Injectors
A 2 bar map sensor
Three 90* bends that are 2.5" ID.
Some straight pipe at 2.5" ID
Silicone couplers and T-bolt clamps at 2.5" ID
one silicone reducer from 2.5 to 2.25" to meet the throttle body.
one silicone reducer from 2.5 to 2.0 or 1.75" (depends on your turbo outlet) to meet the turbo.
A 3sgte oil pan
Oil feed line (from the pressure port on the head) with a T adapter with a restriction (look at pressure 2's thread he tells you where to get the right part).
Oil drain line to the 3sgte oil pan.
1 Step colder copper or iridium plugs with a non projected tip at a slightly reduced plug gap.

That's it.

I had a similar setup around a CT26 turbo and a fuel pressure regulator rather than the 440cc injectors. It will give you a nice boost in power compared to stock, but it will heat soak after say 10 seconds of boosting making the power drop dramatically.

It's fun for passing power, merging on the highway at speed, gives the car some nice pickup ...etc. But for continued repeated boosting you'd need an intercooler.... and for continued repeated fun you'd need a boost controller and fuel tuning to bump up the power past the 200hp mark.

Again if you're satisfied with a 'small' kit with a 'small' increase in power, there's no reason not build a burien style kit.... or even add a layer of repeatability to it with a good water/meth injection kit (only adds 150usd to your cost) but prevents the heat soak.

Obviously at this low a hp add, nitrous would be a good alternative setup...

are you doing this with nitrous ?
what kit are you using ?

nitrous is usually tuned by changing the size of fuel / nitrous jets for large adjustments
and by adjusting fuel pressure for fine tuning the mixture.

However, to say that you know a 'qualified' to trust to do the tuning for you, weather it's on an AFC, in fuel pressure, or swapping jets... especially if you're using a single fogger...

Let me summarize.
You can do what i told you, or even wire in the SAFC to your nitrous activation instead of TPS so that it's automatic. However unless you know what you're doing and have 4 EGT bungs, one in each runner, i wouldn't do what i think you want to do.

on the AFC, rather than wiring in your TPS directly to the AFC, wire it through a switch that is normally open.

set your low throttle to something like 15%
set your high throttle to something like 85%

keep your settings in the low throttle map 0% across the board
tune your corrections on the high throttle map depending on the need. (nitrous, clutched supercharger, other octane map ...etc)

switch is off, throttle is low = no corrections (low throttle map)
switch is off, throttle is high = no corrections (low throttle map)
switch is ON, throttle is low = no corrections (low throttle map)
switch is ON, throttle is high = corrections (high throttle map).

Forgot to mention a few things...

Intake mods don't mean much to a nitrous setup since nitrous is cold and compressed. So you can get ALOT of nitrous in through a small intake, throttlebody, intake manifold, intake valve, conservative intake cam.

However after the nitrous is burned it produces the same amount of exhaust as an equivalent hp turbo car.

So if you would put a 3" exhaust on a 240hp turbo car, you would want a similar sized exhaust for a 120hp car running a 120 shot of nitrous.

with a 50 shot you're probably fine. But before you go to a 75shot (or higher) it'd be a good idea to invest in the following:

Ported stock exhaust manifold or aftermarket head
Aftermarket exhaust capable of flowing your HP level or an exhaust cutout.
Good lift / duration exhaust cam and possibly cam timing optimized for n20

I used a quarter mile calculator for you.

stock 7afe, 120hp 3400lbs (with driver) => 18.61 seconds
stock 7afe + 60shot, 3400lbs (with driver) => 16.32

Nitrous nowadays is farely safe.

Get yourself an air fuel ratio safety switch, a window switch, a WOT switch, and an arming switch.

Start at a 50 shot, then go up to a 75. you should be fine on a 7afe with a 75 shot with some 2-3 degrees of timing retard on 93 octane starting to spray around the 3000rpm mark with 1 step colder copper plugs.

It's good practicie to replace your fuel filter and make sure your ignition setup is healthy before you start.
It also may be a good idea to get a fuel pump that can supply the 200hp worth of fuel. Of course even if you skip this part, the Air fuel safety switch will save you if you run out of fuel...

Of course traction is another issue.

You can spray up to a 100% shot (120hp) if you go direct port with proper timing retard with a progressive controller on 93 octane and still be 'safe' you just have to know what you're doing / how to make sure the tune is safe.

-Nuke

literally a shade tree mechanic

:Thumbs up:

2-3 lbs of boost from the cutout means that there are 2-3 lbs of back pressure in the exhaust (even on a 2.5" exhaust).

Pretty good proof of why a bigger exhaust can gain you up to 15hp (if it drops your back pressure from 3psi down to 1psi it's the equiv. of upping the BC by 2psi....

Great clean swap. Great looking midpipe.

They say that if you install a few inch long angle cut turndown on the end of the cutout after the cut plate that is smoothes flow and potentially gains a bit more HP (and quiets down whatever blips, burps or pops) that come out of it off throttle or during transitions...

Great job.

Yeah streetbrawler is a kickass piece of kit too

The 'Nuclear' Setup:


Full race T3 manifold
http://www.full-race.com/catalog/product_i...cea43c2f63ffcca

ball bearinged T3/To4e 46 trim

modified 2jz cam gear

Dual stage boost controller or Apexi AVCR (for traction) ...

Of course bring the octane

Last time i looked at flow charts... for a stock 5sfe you want a T3/TO4e 46 trim

A 54 trim is good on a higher flowing head (at a lower pressure ratio) which is a wider compressor map. which makes sense for say an 8000rpm cammed 5sfe or a 3sgte. But for a 5sfe (high pressure ratio, relatively low flow figures) which is a taller map, the 46 trim is perfect.

If you can do an external wastegated T3/T04e 46 trim i'd think you'd post some really nice numbers... Restrict the A/R to get the fast spool... and use an external 40mm or larger wastegate so that the small A/R doesn't choke off your top end.

if you do that, and you do it right you'll have a graph that looks like the best parts of your run and shannon's run combined.

Of course, nobody ever listens to me. What do I know about anything.

What do you mean replaced the wire and ohm checked it ?

Did you weld in any normal electrical wire ? or did you go ahead and replace your spark plug wires ???

Spark plug wires are silicone insulated to withstand the 20 to 30,000 volts that the coil puts out.

If you put a normal wire on for your spark plugs, the wire will not be able to withstand (hold) the voltage and it will discharge the voltage through its insulation to the engine block before the power reaches the spark plug. The spark plug will never see any voltage and will never fire...

Insulation break down is sporadic, so it may fire every few times ... but it will miss alot ?

please tell me you didn't just solder in some wire for your spark wires ?

I'd put adjustable cam gears on it while it's on the floor ...

only harness maker i know of...

http://www.boomslang.us/ultimate.htm

but pretty much you have to wire it yourself ... it's not hard especially if you have the ECU pin outs for your car.. it may take you only 2-3 hours to do the whole thing...

So I did some reading ...

** Use one analog in/out to clamp my map sensor voltage to raise my stock boost control from 6 to 11psi
+ YES

** Use the airflow correction map to clamp it at 163 g/s (190hp) to prevent the ECU from limping when it sees more than 190hp worth of air
+ YES or Just use the Boost Cut Limiter setting to clamp the MAS Voltage

** Use the Injector correction to add the needed fuel that the ECU isn't adding (because i had clamped the MAS voltage to prevent it from freaking out).
+ YES

** Using TWO additional analog in/out signals to modify my TPS signal and my backup TPS signal (drive by wire)... which will reduce throttle lag
+ NO (It only has 2 analog in/outs , one is used for MAS and one is used for MAP so i'm out of inputs)

** Use one switched digital output so that I can take control over my boost bleed air injection system so that I can hold all my boost in when i go WOT rather than have it bled into the cat to keep emissions down.
+ YES - I can either do this through the Vtec interface and the Auxilliary output setting map or using the NVCS/Relay channel depending on weather I need to supply +12v or 0v to the solenoid.

Do all of this without touching my ignition setup (very complex COP) and keeping timing / ignition control with the ECU
+ YES

Do all this while taking the Emanage RPM input from any of my 4 coils (as there is no dizzy or rpm pulse that i could tap into)
+ YES requires jumper setting and choosing the right rpm type

Do all of this while using my MAP as my TPS input (so the E-manage knows when the car is shifting (boost drops to 0 and then builds again) even when i'm 100% floored ) (automatic transmission) (possibly using the manual min/max settings for the TPS)
+Yes , just wire the MAP to both analog input 2 and the TPS input

How does the additional injection pulse width feature work, do you CUT the injector wires or do you just tap into them like the EM-Blue ?
If you cut them totally ? do you think it will trigger a CEL on OBD-2 ?
+You cut them totally... and rewire hte emanage to your injectors,
Some cars do throw a CEL (including 98+ 3000GT's) and greddy has created an extra wiring pack to simulate injectors ... I'm attaching it for info ... actually i can't attach on here ?

Anyway, you can buy it from greddy for 50 bux... it solves the CEL problem ...

I'm gonna look around, maybe there's another device that has more analog I/O's where i can do it all ...

Sup man,

This is off topic (for my benz) ...

Can I do ALL of the following with the e-manage:

Use one analog in/out to clamp my map sensor voltage to raise my stock boost control from 6 to 11psi
Use the airflow correction map to clamp it at 163 g/s (190hp) to prevent the ECU from limping when it sees more than 190hp worth of air
Use the Injector correction to add the needed fuel that the ECU isn't adding (because i had clamped the MAS voltage to prevent it from freaking out).

Using TWO additional analog in/out signals to modify my TPS signal and my backup TPS signal (drive by wire)... which will reduce throttle lag
Use one switched digital output so that I can take control over my boost bleed air injection system so that I can hold all my boost in when i go WOT rather than have it bled into the cat to keep emissions down.

Do all of this without touching my ignition setup (very complex COP) and keeping timing / ignition control with the ECU
Do all this while taking the Emanage RPM input from any of my 4 coils (as there is no dizzy or rpm pulse that i could tap into)
Do all of this while using my MAP as my TPS input (so the E-manage knows when the car is shifting (boost drops to 0 and then builds again) even when i'm 100% floored ) (automatic transmission) (possibly using the manual min/max settings for the TPS)

How does the additional injection pulse width feature work, do you CUT the injector wires or do you just tap into them like the EM-Blue ?
If you cut them totally ? do you think it will trigger a CEL on OBD-2 ?

Thanks man...

A FCD is different on a 5sfe than it is on a 3sgte.

A 3sgte uses an airflow meter to determine how to fuel the engine. It uses the MAP sensor for things like fuel cut.
A 5sfe uses the map sensor to determine how to fuel the engine. It also uses it for things like fuel cut.

Fuel cut happens somewhere around 4.7 volts coming to the ECU from the MAP sensor
on a regular 1 bar map sensor (installed on a stock 5sfe) 4.7 volts happens at around ~2psi. So just around 2psi the ECU will go into fuel cut.

What most 5sf't'e guys do is switch up to a 2 bar map sensor with bigger injectors.
Like i said earlier, the 5sfe uses the map sensor for fueling so when you switch to a 2bar map sensor you have to compensate for this change with larger injectors, otherwise hte engine will not be fueled correctly.

On the 2 bar sensor, 4.7 volts happens somewhere around 12-14psi... depending on your altitude, the exact temperature ...etc (alot of factors affect exactly where fuel cut happens but it's around tha t psi level).
Since most 5sfe users won't run more than 10-12 psi then they don't need a fuel cut defender, because their fuel cut is usually higher than the boost they choose to run on a daily basis.

Furthermore, the ideal injector to use with a 2bar sensor for a typical sized turbo is around 360-400 cc injectors.
Most of hte recent 5sfe turbo conversions are using 450 cc injectors off the RX7. These injectors are larger than needed so most people will have to add negative corrections on the SAFC or Emanage to make the air fuel ratio perfect at full throttle. What the negative corrections does is make 4.7 volts happen at an even higher boost level (a -10% correction will add 1.5 to 2psi to your fuel cut, putting it around 14 to 16psi) ...

So with the 2 bar map sensor and 450cc injectors and an SAFC / Emanage dyno tune most people will not need a fuel cut defender because fuel cut will be at a boost level higher than they need and it will be a good safety feature to have fuel cut at 14-16psi if you're running at 10-12psi setup.

Everything before here applies to most 5sf't'es ... End of part 1
_________________________________________________

Part 2: Crazy boost:

A 5sfe with the right parts can be built to make 3sgte like hp in the 300-400 crank hp range.
This will take some mods like head porting, valve work, cams, intake and exhaust manifold work, the right combination of internals and compression ratio, and last but most importantly the CORRECT sized turbo.

A modded 5sfe making peak power (in normally aspirated version) at 6400 rpms rather than 5400 rpms will be able to make around 360-380 hp at around 19psi.
To fuel this kind of a monster you have a few fuel options but the easiest would be something like this:

3 bar map sensor
four 540cc main injectors
Emanage ultimate for tuning

The 3 bar map sensor means 4.7 volts happens around 21 psi.
The 540cc's will match the 3 bar map
and you won't need a FCD.

The problem with using that big an injector is that it may not idle cleanly at 700. So this kind of setup would go well with a cam that will idle at around 1000 rpms, especially if you can use the emanage to move your redline to 7000 rpms or so ...

Is the problem with turbo timers the auto arm?
or is it remotely shutting the doors while the car is still running ?

>> What is the major weakness of the 5s that can be dealt with aftermarket parts. Or is it just a waste of money and no matter what you do the engine still is weak?

head design
having a slave cam (no individual cam tunability)
rods
compression ratio
oil squirters under the pistons (stolen from a 3sgte and added to a 5sfe block)

by the time you fix all that it probably would've been better to just get a 3sgte and stroke it.

a 2.2 liter stroked 3sgte

Some little things that do make a difference.

1- timing advance (if you run high octane gas) ... good for 3-4hp. If you cant alter your timing by rotating the distributor, you can do the intake temp sensor resistor mod trick.

2- Insulated intake manifold gaskets (you can get these on ebay). Make the car less prone to heat soaking after long traffic stops. Doesn't always ADD hp but sometimes it prevents it from being lost off to heat soak. If they do add power, they do it by making the intake manifold slightly longer which changes it's resonant frequency and usually adds some 2-3hp and some 5ft-lbs of torque.
Sometimes you can find a different model (corolla, camry..etc) with a similar engine with a plastic intake manifold... you can swap this manifold on for the same effect.

3- Throttle body coolant bypass mod (simple to do and dyno proven for a 1-2 hp).

4- 'Voltage Stabilizers'. I know these sound like BS. But I built one on my own and installed it on my benz and it does work. My throttle response is better and my 4000-5000 rpm pickup is better with it.

I talked to a couple of people about this, and our best guess is that it improves your ignition effeciency and response time. So from an ignition event point of view it's the same as having a slight timing advance.

now those are 4 mods that add 3-4 hp. But don't expect a 16hp gain doing all of these together ...

after you do all these mods , reset your ECU.

in 20 years you will be inside the matix. you will no longer know what is real and what is not, you will not be able to unplug... and those who think they are 'enlightened' enough to know about the matrix, and think that they operate outside of it, are only operating in a secondary matrix, a subroutine if you will, from the main matrix... where they are trapped inside the circle, with all those people that think they live outside the box....

is FF out for PS3 ? that looks amazing !!!!!
i should look into this

Driving the benz ('05 C200 Kompressor) with mods of course

Next car looks like a lexus ISxxx ... I drove an '07 IS300 few weekends ago and had some serious car envy...

if you're serious about n2o, here's a good FAQ...

http://forums.clubsi.com/ubbthreads.php/ub...Board/13/page/1

n2o 5sfe...

get a wet kit
make sure everything is up to spec (full tune up)
(and most importantly the usually ignored fuel filter)

a 35 shot is too small... start with a 50 shot, and work up to a 75 shot....

You need 1 step colder plugs, in copper (don't use platinum or iridium), and it's possibly best to use a slightly reduced plug gap...
make sure your timing is set to stock (10* BTDC) or possibly retard it by 2* if you are running a 75 shot
You don't need any intake side upgrades (the nitrous will take care of intake flow)
Do get a header and a full header back exhaust
Don't skimp on the safety aspect, you need a window switch, an air fuel safety switch and a WOT switch, plus an arming switch to make it a safe setup
purge is optional (And looks cool i guess)
never spray on anything less than 93 octane

If your clutch is old, your clutch may die on your first spray (if you don't have a window switch, the car may just rev up through redline, hit fuel cut and blow the motor...this is why a window switch is essencial).

never spray 5th gear, or spray longer than 15 seconds.

edit: no need for a fuel controller, if you want ot tune it, do it on a dyno, at a fixed bottle pressure (get a pressure regulated bottle heater) and use nitrous/fuel jets to tune the mixture...

make the line between the nitrous solenoid and the nitrous nozzle twice as long as the fuel line from the nitrous solenoid to the nitrous solenoid (so if the kit comes with 15" lines for both fuel and n2o, either get a 7" line for fuel or a 30" line for n2o) ... this will eliminate a 'lean' spot on nitrous activation...

edit2: you're auto... get your auto tranny flushed and auto filter replaced... you may want to switch to synthetic tranny fluid... and you need to get (or make sure you have) an oil cooler on your transmission before you start spraying... tranny coolers for autos are like clutch upgrades for manuals...

that's it , if you have more questions, ask...