6G Celicas Forums

Got my return, and spent it on a night on the town.....bars, juicy bars, and clubs....and lotsa rum and cokes, lol....

before we say that a vvt-i 3sgte is a bad idea, can anyone give any proven reasons why?? im pretty sure that there is a 3sgte with vvti anyways, therefore making anybodies plan of turboing a beams 3sge kinda unesesscary. And sorta like the vvl on the sr20, it actually helps more than anything else....anywho, a beams swap will be 2k or higher, 3rd gen, which is alittle less in power than the redtop beams, can go for 500-1200....btw, hanyo actually has the rest of how the swap should go for you..peace

blacktop beams: 200-220hp
redtop beams : 180-200hp
3rd gen 3sge: 160-185hp, depending on where its from
2nd gen 3sge: 140-175hp, also depending on where you get it from
1st gen 3sge, not worth putting in your car... about 100-140hp....

thanks bro ^_^

is it a coupe? cant see the pics, thats why i asked.....

Hey guys whats up. Im just posting up some info that ive been reading on zilvia.net, about this huge court battle taking place in Alameda County, Cali, about the banning of street motorsports of various kinds, at not only the streets (obviously) but also at the track there. I know that not everyone on this forum lives in cali, much less Alemeda, shoot, i live in South Dakota, but still, the court battle there might end up setting up a precendent that other counties/states might follow, all because of the mis-informed, sterotyping populous that confuses those who take part in whatever motorsport, to be drugies, gang-bangers and things of the such. Hopefully some of you might take notice, and try to help our fellow car enthsiast in Cali, because it is really starting to get crazy there, and we all know, that just because you have alittle love for your car, or maybe even "legal" drifting/drag events, that we all do not do drugs, or gang-bang out in and around tracks or even the streets. Anywho here is the link to the thread at zilvia.net, and mods if this post is in any way a disregard to the rules of this forum, then pls delete it....anywho......

Link -------> http://www.zilvia.net/f/showthread.php?t=141739

if only i was in the states to jump on this......think you could wait 3 more months to get it moving out of your place bro , cause if so then that car would be mine

<---- misses okinawa

p.s.
The junkyards at camp foster are nice.... btw, are you marine, airforce??

Hmmm, dont know if this helps any, but maybe your ignitor isnt grounded...erhem, on my old 3sfe, once i installed my msd, my car woldnt start because i had taken my ignitor of the firewall ( what im guessing is that it was grounded to the firewall), but when i ran a few grounds from the ignitor it started fine...hmm, hope this helps..

whats a compression test?

I had the same Question with my last car also....figured out that it was 3sfe.......would like to be more specific and say the 3rd gen 3sfe, but cant back that up.....its has about as much torque and horsepower as a 5sfe i believe. The 4sfe came with some corona's and eds, and looks alittle like the one in your engine bay, but actually isnt. And i do belive that you have the celica hatchback model.

what kind of just in case parts are you looking for.....and you would have to agree with celicurr that location would help....

never done what your trying to do, but i heard that to help make it work you would have to drill out some of the holes in the header to make them fit........and before anything why dosent it fit. ie: bolts too big or somn..

What about the ignition system.....

I guess so........

i put money on the thermostat......

In short the 3sge beams, came in two versions. The red top, and the black top. The red top beams, came stock with 200 horses, about 196 at the wheels, and about 21kg-m or torque. The black top beams, had about 210 horses, and about the same amout of torque....The real diffrence though between the two engines, is that the black top came with dual vvti (on both the exhaust and intake cams). Of course in a more simpler note some of may wonder what "beams" means, and or "vvti". Well, beams stands for , Breakthrough Engine with Advance Mechanical System. VVT-I, stands for Variable Valve Timing with Intelligence. Below is an artical from wikpedia.org, on it;

VVT-i, or Variable Valve Timing with Intelligence, is an automobile variable valve timing technology developed by Toyota. The Toyota VVT-i system replaces the Toyota VVT offered starting in 1991 on the 4A-GE 20-Valve engine. The VVT system is a 2-stage hydraulically controlled cam phasing system.

VVT-i, introduced in 1996, varies the timing of the intake valves by adjusting the timing chain connecting the intake camshaft. A pump applies hydraulic pressure to adjust the gear driving the timing chain. In 1998 "Dual" VVT-i (adjusts both intake and exhaust camshafts) was first introduced in the RS200 Altezza's 3S-GE engine. Dual VVT-i is also found in the Toyota's new generation of V6 engine, 3.5L V6 found in the Avalon, RAV4, and Camry

Toyota recently started offering a new technology, VVTL-i, which can alter valve lift (and duration) as well as valve timing. This is accomplished differently than Honda's VTEC. Instead of switching between two different cam shafts, there are spacers that are slid between a single cam shaft and the valves. At higher RPM, controlled by the ECU, oil pressure is directed to push the spacers between the camshaft lobes and valves, effectFE]] V6. It was first available on the Toyota Celica GTS (2ZZ-GE) in 2000.

(General)
Engine Specs

Beams Red/black Top_
Production dates-1999 to present
200 to 210hp
Comp| 11:0
Found in| Celica SS-III (st202) fwd ~_1
MR-2 G (sw-20) rwd mid engine ~_1
Caldina (gf-st215) awd ~_1
Rav 4 (?) ~_2
Altezza (?) ~_2

~_1 indicates black top
~_2 indicates red top
~_3 indicates both


Note on the beams engines, is their un-forseenable complications with computer tuning due to the vvti system. Also, swapping heads or internal parts btwn the earlier generation 3sge's is non-advisable, due to oil passages, and ecu complications.

Well if anyone has anymore info to post up, or if they have any questions pls feel free to post up, or ask.

One note though......the rav4 came in the 3sfe beams, and the 3sge beams.....im not sure if thats it though.......

Dont know how much it would help, but trd put together a completely rebuilt beams 3sge, with about 270 horses and 240ft lbs of tourqe, just using all internals.......no computer reprogramming or nothin.....as a matter of fact, if you go to their trd japan website, theyll have everything they used for sale.........might help some, esp with the throttle bodies.........and another place to buy tb's for your 3sge is http://www.axia-sports.com/altezza.html, and http://www.junauto.co.jp/products/intake-p...en..........and good luck.

oh thought you were someone else.......hey with that swap good luck, and yeah tunig the beams 3sge is alot more expensive and alot more work than a 3sgte.......

Hey thats not fair man......you got all those pictures of curren s but not mine......its not a complete picture album if it dosent have MY curren......Link

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/794229

Hey edophus.....are you in okinawa right now???

do you need the core support if you try the conversion on the coupe model celica........i mean, ive looked at the st202 front end, btwn that and the st206, they both look about the same

The 3S-GE is an in-line 4 cylinder engine manufactured by Toyota and tuned by Yamaha Motor Company Ltd.. Its cylinders are numbered 1-2-3-4 with cylinder number 1 beside the timing belt. The cylinder heads are made of aluminium alloy. The pen-roof combustion chambers are complemented by a cross-flow intake and exhaust layout. The spark plug is located in the center of the combustion chamber. The ignition order of the cylinders is in the 1-3-4-2 order.

The crankshaft, located within the crankcase, rotates on five aluminium alloy bearings and is balanced by eight weights. Oil holes are located in the middle of the crankshaft to provide oil to the connecting rods, bearing, pistons and other moving components.

The intake manifold has four independent ports and benefits from inertia build up to improve engine torque at low and medium speeds.

A single timing belt drives the intake and exhaust camshaft. The cam journal is supported on five points between the valve lifters of each cylinder and on the front of the cylinder head. The cam journals are lubricated by an oiler port located in the middle of the camshaft.

The "Outer Shim Type System" allows for the replacement of the shims without the need to remove the chamshaft. To adjust the valve clearance, adjust the shims above the valve lifters.

The pistons are made from an aluminium alloy, design to withstand high temperatures. An indentation is incorporated into the piston head to prevent the pistons from hitting the valves, should the timing belt break. Piston pins holding the pistons in place are locked by snap rings.

The first compression ring and the oil ring are made of steel, the second compression ring is made of cast iron. Compression rings 1 and 2 prevent exhaust leakage from the combustion chamber while the oil ring works to clear oil off the cylinder walls, preventing excessive oil from entering the combustion chamber.

The cast iron cylinder block holds four cylinders which are approximately two times the length of the piston stroke. The top of the cylinders are covered by the cylinder head. Build into the cylinder block are coolant channels, which cools the block which houses the pistons.

At the bottom of the cylinder block is an oil pan which stores the oil. An panel is used to ensure that there is sufficient oil available in the oil pan, as the oil moves around the reservoir during movement of the vehicle. This prevents oil from being shifted away from the oil pump suction pipe.


From wikpedia.org





(General)
Engine Weight 137kg
Engine Specs:

Gen 1_
Production dates- 1986-1989
135-140hp 134ft.lbf
Comp| 9:8:1
Found in| Celica GT-S (st162)

Gen 2_
production dates-1990 to 1993
150-160hp 137ft.lbf
Comp| 10:0:1
Found in| Celica GT-R (st182/183)
Corona Exiv TR-G (st182/183-atpvf)
Caldina TZ-G (st195)
Rav4 Type G (E-Sxa11w)
Corona exiv GT-4WD (st205)~2
MR-2 GT-Bar (SW-20)~1


Gen 3_
production dates-1994 to 1996
175-180hp 142ft.lbf
Comp| 10:0:1
Found in| Celica SS-II/III (st202)
Curren ZS (st202/st206)
Caldina TZ-G (st195)
Corona 200gt (st202)
MR-2 G Limited (SW-20)~1

~1_indicates rwd engine
~2_indicates awd/4wd engine
note that MR-2s are mid-engines
All info is sourced from wikpedia.org,toysport.com,
and auto.vl.ru.




The gen-1 3sge's were equipped with the TVIS system, basically with dual runners and larger ports.The second and third gen had a new short/long ram induction system, which benefitted the engine by redirecting air, depending on throttle position and vaccum. Although, the third generation had a different valve setup, to correct a problem that occured in the second gen's with aftermarket or sports cams on. ( while at high rpm's the shim's were known to fall out of their "buckets", esp. with aftermarket cams on the engine).

As far as info on the cylinder heads, here is an a paragraph from TOYSPORT explaining it:

Cylinder Head: Like all Toyota G type 16 valve heads, only minor porting is required. Except for early All Trac heads (ST165), all heads can use the aftermarket cams. On the older ST165 All Tracs, you will need to modify the lifter or valve because they will bottom up. Always check the cam manufacturers suggestion specially if the lift is more than 7.5mm and duration is over 288! Convert to- shim-under-the bucket, valve adjustment if the car will see serious competition use. There is no advantage going bigger valves, unless they have to be replaced anyway. If the heads need to be resurfaced because of warpage- do not exceed 1mm cut. If it needs to be heated to straighten out- replace the head. The head has to be surfaced to a mirror finish if a metal head gasket is being used.

The 2nd generation (small port) head is advisable on a ground-up engine preparation. This head will flow better than the old TVIS type head- for turbo applications or individual throttle body installations (and carbs too!). The 3rd generation head, when available, is very hard to get and expensive, but still cheaper than buying the shim adjustment conversion package. We have some available. The 4th generation is almost impossible to set-up because all the electronic functions are electrically related to the ECU- meaning drivetrain, suspension controls, and steering inputs are first processed. Short of a stand-alone fuel injection, it cannot be modified. If you have to ask how- please do not even begin.

As far as swapping heads ,3sge head on 5s/3s block, yes it can be done, and yes ppl have done it.More than likely if your on this site looking at this post for info on how to do it, just search for it on the menu. For those of you who dont want "search" here are some links

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=27632&hl=3sge (5sfe)
http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=35436&hl= (3sfe)

p.s. the 3sfe/3sge share the same blocks.

3sge block on other engines.....4age,3sgte;
4age dont do it......in a nutshell. It wont work. Not only are the blocks different, but he ecu's are diffrent, and besides, if you want to make some weird hybrid, ( a 34ge) just realize youll be destroying two good engines, and that it really wont be worth it.

3sgte, yes you CAN swap heads. The question is why? If you want a turbo engine, or a "strong n/a " engine, then both engines by themselves, are already built up for their intended pruposes...and if you skipped the above info, they are basically the same engines, but one is turbo the other isnt.....BUT if you do, try to stick with the generations....3rd gen 3sge w/3rd gen 3sgte..

Parts swapping is another thing. Btwn the generations, like toysport put it, btwn the three gens, there have been valve adjustments, so, ill things up to your own thoughts as far as what will and wont work. Although, I am pretty sure that with the 2nd and third gen, external parts, such as sensors, intake/exhaust manifolds are swappable, with little or no adjustments.......As far as the 3sgte, same thing, but try to stick within the generations...Gen 1 3sge w/gen 1 3sgte.


If anyone has anything else to post, pls feel free to. Ill try to post up some info on the beams 3sge when i get the chance........

well i plan on using the awd tranny along with the drivetrain.....i am going to do an awd conversion in short, but that is why i was asking.....anywho. as far as mating it to the 3sge engine there shouldnt be a problem ..........right?

Does anyone know if you can use a awd 3sgte transmission, with a 3rd gen 3sge???