6G Celicas Forums

If you are specifically looking for just some good noise, you can pick out a muffler and have a muffler shop weld in place of stock. If you want a full catback, they can do that, too. I like the sound of an cone air filter, like a typical k&n. You will need to do a little homework to do generic stuff like this but often the result is actually better.

I don't feel especially limited when looking for celica mods. Much of the car is interchangeable with other common toyotas, and you can mount a and s motors without a lot of fuss. It's easy to work on. Cheap to replace. What more can you ask? It's not like a mustang or an eclipse back in it's day, but most cars don't have that kind of "every part under the sun" support.

Can't he use a 94 or 95 mr2 turbo cal 3sgte? I thought that would be legal. Even if not strictly legal it would likely go thru the average smog inspection just fine.

Oh I didn't realize the stock gte clutch is hard. Is there a version that is lighter?

Crap is showin up in the mail.

This flywheel is for a 3sgte. I understand a gte pressure plate and a 5sfe disk will work fine, but is there any advantage to getting a 3sgte disk with a 5sfe spline? I would like to get as close as possible to an oem 3sgte clutch setup as possible. That should have more than enough torque capacity for the na and have a very light pedal. I get sciatica in my left leg and a light a clutch as possible is required.

Edit: PS the transmission is off too. The very heavy and excessively fastened awd a/t. F*** this thing. I still have a kink in my neck and stains in the driveway.

Hey here's a thing.



Finding a motor was more bothersome than fun. But I got one yesterday. I'd make a more substantial post about it but there's obviously much work to do. Starting with getting rid of that huge transmission. Wish me luck!

Excellent work. That is such a frustrating weak spot for both the 7afe and 5sfe. Did you have a methodology for finding the right bolt? Because alot of users would like to find a suitable arp bolt for the 5sfe rods.

Excellent. That all will help alot! I've read this thread several times and the information is hardly sticking. It's relieving to have things clarified that way. Compatibility conversations of any type give me a headache and I don't know much about ignition (or efi) on top of that.

The finished product would primarily be a curiosity. That is to say, it would not have a significant performance advantage over a build that had only a turbo or a supercharger and the same amount of effort. It would just be really neat. If you just want better turbo response there are many ways. A stroker block for instance would be cheaper and easier than adding a supercharger to the turbo engine.


edit VVV is Smaay threatening to twin charge down here?? VVV idk! =o

Here in bold we are talking about the same distributor in both the obd1 and obd2 cars? Does the ob2 celica cal have a timing gear on the balancer or on the oil pump? Thank you for great reply Syaoran. I do need bits clarified tho. And think of all the future researchers!




Here are you saying that you never go the previous distributor to work or that you never got the newer version running right?



What's a static crank signal? What you describe here is described below as "option number 1"?



(not directly related to the quote I found this unclear thruout the thread) So a 96 obd2 celica has the cas on the oilpump, and uses the same distributor as an obd1 car? Is this only true for CA cars so they can use sequential fi?



I read your story about your mr2 friend who used the older dizzy and ran fine. But as I pointed out above I saw a comment from you about perhaps it not working so well. The verdict here looks like the old distributor with megasquirt on batch fire is good to go?

Thanks again, Syaoran!

Excellent report Syaoran. Good thread too with the differences between the emissions systems and efi.



This article is hugely illuminating for me. I've never had problems with any ignition system and never learned much about it. This article had the basic information I needed to understand Syaoran's post.

So I understand that when switching to ems, Celicas with factory batch injection should at least fit the old style distributor? And the reason is for it's cleaner signal and overall better design?

It was a joke!

Richee, mod status or not, has been incredibly helpful and friendly to me on this forum. Go Richee!

Looks sick. What inspired this build? You had this car for awhile or did you get the chassis specifically to build?

The blocks are so similar in design that it would take an expert to see the difference. The smog tech is mostly looking for things on or attached to the head anyway, so it would be almost miraculous if they managed to notice "somethin dont look right" with the block itself.

I removed my engine and had it sitting around for weeks before I happened upon a tiny stamp on the block that says "3s". It was a 3sfe replacement block, not the 5sfe I thought I was removing. Sure there was subtle differences that I could have noticed If I was an expert, but with all the old 5s head and accessories and parts on it... I'd have never noticed if it wasn't for that tiny stamp way down in there.

Thanks mi645, czwalga, 99gt3sge and rusty for helping make this the most informative page on the whole internet about this subject!

I talked to him about this a few weeks ago. He said that very little would have to be done but wasn't sure about it off-hand. We did confirm that the 3 ecu plugs on the 5sfe harness fit right into the 3rd gen ecu. Not sure what needs to be re-pinned off-hand.

Thanks everyone for contributing so far. Especially czwalga and mi645 for dropping in with the first hand experience.

This is about the non beams 2nd and 3rd gen motors in general. The beams is well documented thanks to Batman and Richee's efforts. Several other users have added to the knowledge as well.

The 2nd and 3rd gen motors however have relatively little in the way of how tos or write ups.

Wiring for Non-Turbo 3SGE swaps into Celica ST204 is undocumented. Strange but true. As of today, we have two 6gc members (KAOS and mi645) attempting the 3rd gen 3sge swap with no information on how to wire them.

I understand that the swaps have been done and are not difficult. I’m starting this thread in hopes that those with the experience can answer some questions about these swaps. The details of the wiring all follow from one primary question.

Question: Is it best to use a 5sfe harness to swap in the 2/3gen 3sge?

(Reminder: 3sge means non turbo or na. Without a ‘t’ in it. Not 3sgte. Normally aspirated.This thread is about the 3sge, NOT the BEAMS. That is not a typo. Atmo. Strictly vacuum. Sucker not blower.)

Following are the threads and posts that lead to this question.

This was posted on here by 99gt3sge



From eazy2001x on mr2oc:




From user pimpm3 on mr2oc:
Sadly, the image of the wiring changes that he made seems to be lost on the internet. I tried waybackmachine. No luck.



Open questions for anyone who knows:

Can the 5sfe celica wiring harness be used on a 3rd gen 3sge swap?
If so what changes must be made?
Is it simply an act of opening both ecus, looking at the printed diagrams, and matching them up?

The 3rd gen motor is supposedly the easiest to install but is the 2nd gen really any harder? Can not the 5sfe harness be modified slightly to run the 2nd gen engine and ecu? Again do the ecus need to be simply opened to reveal the key to matching a few pins?

Any info and thoughts appreciated! There are people out there right now trying to find this information! I know I have been asking around for weeks now!

Sounds like a boat. I'll pass, thanks!

Welcome! Get the pics!!

I think the compression ratio for the newer 3sfes may be 9.8. I've been trying to search for info about it and it's limited. From what I can tell, there's a major revision of the 3sfe that occurs with the introduction of the 5sfe. The "pre-5sfe" version of the 3sfe may have had lower compression.

I agree with Syaoran about the turbo lag. The 5sfe would surely spool the same turbo all things equal faster, but there are so many factors involved with your turbo response that if you wish to improve it, then there is surely several ways to do so.

Things that can lower threshold and lag:

Tuning: Once the full throttle on-boost tuning is sorted, the low-load regions can be fine tuned. Resulting in better driveability and mileage and better turbo response.

Wastegate performance: Tired wastegate actuators can make sluggish response. A healthy working wastegate can be augmented with a computer boost controller. This can reduce lag.

Exhaust after turbine: This will greatly effect the response of the turbine. The turbine would achieve maximum response and efficiency with the downpipe and all exhaust removed completely. A restrictive enough exhaust will actually reduce the amount of boost your turbo can make in total, with a corresponding hit to response!

Turbo center section: The turbocharger's bearing. This should be in good condition before judging the response of the turbo. Otherwise it's like judging a restaurant by tasting a week-old doggybag from the fridge.

Charge piping and intercooler: Generally, yes the compressor will fill up any arrangement of pipes, couplers, bends and cooler core. But these volumes can be optimized for the sake of turbo response.

Usually when race teams are limited to certain amounts of peak power with a turbo, the engine development turns towards turbo response at various rpms to get better performance.

The spacers are good. And they reduce uptravel, making room for taller tires, further raising the ride height.

Combining the suspension lift with taller tires would get you to your desired ride height without making the arms have to "reach down" as far.

What is your desired ride height? Maybe you can measure how many inches high your crossmember is now and we can compare it to where you want it to be and come up with something.

I second the 4afe. It's very similar to the 7afe just... smaller. You likely have your stock transmission. You likely still have the original wiring, sensors and manifolds that came with the car on the 7afe.

Stock V8's? Keeping up? In an actual acceleration contest?

I remember playing the then-new gran turismo 1 and thinking that it surely must be a typo on the in game spec sheet. When I learned that the castrol car did in fact have a 4 cylinder engine, I was fascinated. That choice in that car affects my own preferences to this day.

On topic, the Hsu guy... brash and maybe hasty but he's more or less providing sound advice. No reason to be offended.

Killer documentation. Thanks for taking the time, Smaay!

I just did this for the first time myself. With these pics an instructions it would have been easier no doubt.

I'm looking for a motor now and the 3sfe doesn't look too bad compared to the 5sfe. Given the choice of a square 2 liter and an otherwise identical 2.2 stroker, I would lean towards the 2.0. Add the price difference into the equation and the 3sfe is hard to ignore.

I'd say that both the 3sfe and 5sfe were built for torque and not horsepower. The extra stroke (and bore too) of the 5sfe does not seem to be complemented with changes that would allow it to make more power. The head, cams, manifolds and all appear to be almost identical the smaller 3sfe. The extra displacement can get the intake and exhaust ports flowing at an earlier rpm leading to more torque at low rpm, and ultimately ingest more air per cycle thus making more peak torque. At higher engine speeds, the 2.0 sized manifolds and cams constrain the 5sfe, and it doesn't make much more (if any) power than the 3sfe.

To me, it appears that the a 5sfe is a 3sfe that is massaged to be more appropriate for automatic transmissions and heavier cars. And maybe fatter people. The better torque at low speeds equals lower rpm take off and thus less noise from both the engine and transmission.