6G Celicas Forums

what about like the bar map sensor, ignitor, etc? where did all this information on this forum and others say best to buy a clip cus it sounded like a lot of accessories? just trying to make this thread cleaner.

The Map sensor is the most essential part and the hardest to find. You can source the igniter and coil from ebay for a few bucks since those are common in a few Toyotas.

People recommend buying a clip because it ensures you get every little thing like all of the parts of the heat exchanger, and it help to be able to label things as you uninstall them if its your first time working on a project like this.

The Map sensor is the most essential part and the hardest to find. You can source the igniter and coil from ebay for a few bucks since those are common in a few Toyotas.

People recommend buying a clip because it ensures you get every little thing like all of the parts of the heat exchanger, and it help to be able to label things as you uninstall them if its your first time working on a project like this.

- 4th gen different exhaust manifold bolt pattern than 3rd gen

About this, even if the bolt pattern seems different because the number of holes on the 4th gen exhaust manifold isn't the same as the 3rd gen, you can still bolt a 3rd gen exhaust manifold on a 4th gen head. So, by definition, the bolt pattern is the same. The 4th gen exhaust manifold isn't using all the available studs on the head (especially the top left, upper one)

As for the turbo naming, it is now a convention (at least on the 3SGTE-related forums) that the 3rd gen is a CT20b and the 4th gen is the CT15b. So, I think it would be wise to modify your first post about the turbo name.

Have a good day!

Sam

I was bored so I compiled this info together. I'm actually researching into this a bit. I wanted to get some info onto our own site, as its possible we might head into this movement as the mr2 homies are.

ST205 3rd Gen 3sgte

ST215 4th Gen 3sgte


3rd Generation ST205 3SGTE Celica VS. 4th Generation ST215 3SGTE Caldina
- 4th gen essentially needs only the motor, ECU, and everything that goes with the harness wiring while the 3rd gen pretty much needs the front clip or all the accessories complete
- 4th gen has a larger throttle body
- 4th gen uses ct15 vs 3rd gen ct20 turbo
- 4th gen uses a one-piece turbo/manifold vs 3rd gen but you can still get your own or make your own manifold and pick your own turbo
- 4th gen different exhaust manifold bolt pattern than 3rd gen but still fits same for all S family if 3rd can fit on 5s and 3rd can fit on 4th
- 4th gen different downpipe than the 3rd gen
- 4th gen Intercooler is Air to Air vice Air to Water on the 3rd Gen (Run FMIC for 4th gen unless you switch to air to water setup or create a Caldina style air scoop)
- Both 540cc/min injectors but 4th gen has top feed high impedance vs 3rd gen side feed low impedance
- 4th gen – quicker spooling turbo
- 4th gen has COP (Coil on Plug) while 3rd gen has distributor
- 4th Gen manifold is better with side feed while 3rd gen is almost a center feed
- Midpipe will need to be welded to connect downpipe and rest of exhaust – same for both gens
- S Family transmission or E153 transmission both fits keep the axles and shift cables based on the transmission you use. So you have to match your mounts to transmission as well.
Same Engine Mounts as GT, You can use a 3s flywheel, 3s pressure plate, and a 3s disc splined for 5s or just use the 5s disc.
- Radiator hoses stay the same, either use 5S or 3S
- 4th Gen now is getting cheaper and doable many shops like chico and prime have done many on celicas, mr2s, and even rav4s – more 4th gens are now popping up for sale
- Essentially and by assumption a 4th gen would provide a less beat up engine with low miles since it was mostly an automatic from Japan and newer, but that’s not guaranteed.
- 4th gen requires axle carrier bearing locating pins since the 2nd/3rd gens had them already pressed in but the 4th gen is missing them – get it from Primemr2 and press or tap it in
- 4th gen requires tach adapter. This device converts the tachometer signal from the Gen4 engine to be compatible with the existing tachometer
- Both still need the Supra TT fuel pump or Walbro 255
- 4th gen prior has mentioned internals are weaker such as the rods, but it was found that many of the internal part numbers are the same than 3rd gen.
- 4th gen cylinder walls are thicker than 3rd gen
- 4th gen runs a 9:0:1 compression ratio rather than the 8:5:1 of the 3rd gen
- External drive belts should be the same I believe
- 5S 2.2L PS and AC is possible to mount on to the 4th gen same as 3rd gen
- Head gaskets may be different I’m not sure but I see them as two different part numbers
- Question lies: Where do you get replacement parts for the ST215? It’s difficult to say at this point where a good source is at but with the 4th gen movement some used parts may soon become move available. I’m starting to see some parts being sold on ebay and other sites.
- Other info: The combustion chamber is different. It has a different shape for better pressure recovery. The ports are also different. They are cleaner (better machined) and have different intake valve angle grinds.

YEAR COMP DISPL. POWER TORQUE CAR
1994-1999 8.5:1 1998cc 241hp@6000rpm 225lb-ft@3400rpm ST205 (Celica)
1997-2002 9.0:1 1998cc 255hp@6200rpm 240lb-ft@4400rpm ST215 (Caldina)

Wiring: Can be done by Primemr2 or wiregapinc (mr220v) or by yourself if you want

Aftermarket downpipe: can be found on Primemr2

I’m not taking credit for anything, I’m simply compiling information instead of all this scattered information all over the web.

REFERENCES: www.mr2oc.com, alltrac.net (pitcelica), ilovemysilly, plachum, wiregapinc, 6gc.net forums, toymods.au, and others who I may not have mentioned that provided some input on threads

If there are corrections to be made or additions, that would be great.

Ignition timing is controlled more accurately by COP'S, but not to such an extent that a stock 3S and stock turbo will have any real benefit. But I personally prefer COP's for exactly what you said- fewer parts to maintain.

Once we wander away from 6gc.net, we see that the 4th gen has proven to be just as capable as a 3rd gen. Which begs the question, why argue in favor of one motor or the other? Both are great choices. Both swaps are simple enough. Both give you a 2 liter turbocharged engine that is dead reliable, gives 300 whp all day, and bolts right in. Neither is superior to the other, but they both have slight benefits over each other.

So, why in a thread that is an informative thread about the 4th gen, has a pissing contest started between 3S owners? It's just a matter of personal preference, nothing worth arguing over.

I personally prefer the 4th gen for a few reasons, just the same as many prefer a 3rd gen. For me, the BEAMS has me spoiled. It's self contained (in the sense of just buying the engine/harness/ECU and that I need) so the 4th gen appeals to me for its similarity. Nothing against the 3rd gen, just what I prefer.


*This post is in no way directed at anyone here. Just referring to the inevitable argument about an essentially similar motor.