6G Celicas Forums

Ok, over the past few months i've been gathering parts for a 1mzfe swap. I finally have everything But the ecu, but that's not a big deal. I know the motor will fit, that's not the issue. And i don't want to make huge power 280-300hp at the most.

But here's the delima, i have everything for the 4age head converison. I would like eventually to go turbo and the 1m is not going to leave a lot of room for this, unless i go crazy on the engine bay, and piping will be a pita. Plus the turbo 7age has already been done and has sources for reliabilty, where as the 1m really is not a heavily document motor as to it's abilities.

Now my question to you guys is if given a choice, with a goal of 300hp which would you choose?


this is something i am going to complete over time, since the celica is no longer a dd, and i work almost continously, hopefully by late summer it'll be done.

depends, the 1mz is gonna give you instant power and torque from idle that the 7agte is never going to do, but youll have a harder time reaching 300hp.

personally, id go for the 1mz, if youre happy to try and sort out the driveline, that way you'd be creating something rare and special (a v6 celica) and very driveable. what i mean is, if you parked two celicas next to each other, and opened the hoods, and said, one has a 7agte hybrid and the other has a 1mzfe conversion, id go look at the 1mzfe first

but thats just me

Aha...

With a goal of 250whp, it's gonna be the 1mz.... much more so when thinking 300.

The 7a... god love it... will never find reliability in the 250ish range... The 1mz... 250whp is a tuned with mild bolt ons. AND a reliable daily driver with a torque curve so flat your mamma could sit on it! honestly man, the thing makes max torque at like... 1800 RPM's or something and then stays constant all the way to red line.

And why turbo it? TRD makes a supercharger that could put it up to about 300 no problem. Look at the MR2 that won the sport compact challenge. It's a great engine,,, and with V6 power. In ANY situation it would crush the 7ag. It's up there in 3s territory.

And yea... I did TONS of research into this swap.

what car came with a 1mzfe? I've never heard of this...

i am going want to go turbo because i already have the turbo, But only reason why i am considering the 7age is because of the difficulty of the 1mz swap, there are several things that will need to be moved/remounted, and that's just by visual comparrison. I haven't pulled the 7afe yet, but hopefully will be able to in the comming weeks, that way i'll be able to tell more indepth with what needs to be changed/reworked.


btw i don't have a need for dd reliablity, But don't want the car to be on jack stand all the time either.

This post has been edited by Einhander: Feb 28, 2005 - 12:50 AM

Well, that is true. The 7ag will be MUCH less work. however, If you are looking for 300whp, the 7ag just won't do it. Turboed, the 7ag can produce a reliable 200whp in my opinion. NA it might make 160 at the wheels. Any more than that and you are un drivable for daily use. You might be able to squeak a bit more in the TURBo form, but you will be limiting the life of the engine.

there is only so much you can do with 1.8ltrs of old tech reliably...

the 1mz came in the toyota camry, solara, one of the vans I think (sienna) and the Lexus ES300. The Solara was the only manual model.

The Camry also had a 5 speed model, both 2 door and 4 door. ;]

Umm... IMO, the 1MZ will simply be a bigger badder 5SFE/7AFE. It won't feel too sporty. It'll be big and torquey... but the sporty feel won't be there. Also note... the only guy to have done a 1MZ swap (into a 5th gen), only managed mid 14's 1/4 mile with very good launches. I think a good 7AG set-up can match that.

http://www.turbofast.com.au/mr2.html
7agte can hit 300 horse as for the reliablity well thats all on how its tuned (correct me if i wrong) if its tune right you can run around on 250+ horse but then it comes down to FWD usable power which i dont really care about 300+ even 500 + on a fwd is usable then you're driving just not so much at a stop ((traction))

in a celica both engines are rare but 7agte is the easier install IMAO

i might be bias (SP) but i'm headed down the 7agte path so.....

This post has been edited by nik: Feb 28, 2005 - 5:41 PM

From what i've seen and read, the 7agte can reach 250whp, and be stable. And with the added weight of the v6 the performance numbers are close.

then i guess it just comes down to what you want to do.
250-300 whp in a celica would be alot of fun

my goal on my build is 300 whp

people have been throwing around that link for years now. I would love to know how long it actually lasted at those boost levels.

You are not going to have a good easily streetable, reliable 250-300whp 7afe... or 7ag for that matter.

It'll run at 250whp for a while... it will be peeky and a pain to run in traffic. and after a year or two will need new rings... or worse.

I am sorry if I sound like a pessimist, but the 7afe is a boat anchor.

Yea, you can bore it, put in new pistons and rods, G head fully built with turbo... spend 4-5 grang in machine and parts... or you can start with a proper platform and be happy. Like me I love my car, but it's not a sports car. It's a DD, and that is the role it is going to fill for me.

@ nik

byuss -- bias

You were way off.

hey Fallen

i think 250 whp is a streetable application
but now are you talking about the motor or power out put?
the 3sgte guys are running around close to 220 -250 whp
my turbo 7afe is only 170whp and 180 trq with better injectors it can push in the 200 and still be streetable

This post has been edited by nik: Feb 28, 2005 - 5:45 PM

Anyways...

http://engr.ucsb.edu/~warped/projects/swap/index.htm

I believe this is the 5th gen you guys were talking about.

stock blocked... it would be what... 12ish psi maybe 14 for 200+whp? (we are talking 7afe)

Ok. Yes, that is perfectly streetable. I just don't think it will last. the 7afe is classically unreliable when it comest to boost. Granted, most of the 7a problems can be accredited to high miles, shortcut somewhere, missing the signs, and then the engine dies.

I don't know anybody that has run the 7a for an extened period of time on boost and not had to re-build. how long have you had yours running?

The engines actual running is not the problem, but reliability... i just don't like it. If your power goals were at 200whp with a 7ag, I would say that is a good shot. there you can build the engine right, with the right cams, 82mm forged pistons, prepared rods, etc and have Safe and reliable 7a at 200whp.

I think 250+is pushing it. All I can say is prove me wrong. I would not be angry or sorry in the least if I was. Matter of fact, I'd be a bit proud.

Like I said, I am not being an ass, I am just saying the 7a isn't worth the trouble in my opionion.

Good luck mang. Don't cut corners.

i've been looking for that link for a few weeks, had it saved on the old computer. Thanks.

Really? That took me two seconds to find. Google. Images. Search for - 1mzfe.
Ta-da. I know you want to try it.

Oh i will try it, just depends on what needs to be done decides weither or not it'll stay. But i'll agree that 1m looks at home in the bay of the 5th gen.

on the 7afte 200whp is pushing its limits with no building of the motor
on the 7agte 200whp chat that would be a good goal but not what i'm looking for
now this is IMAO with ARGO rods fully built head prep bottom end 8.0:1 fordge pistons and SDS im going to get 300 ( well i want to get close to that )
i just have to build it and find out.

too bad frotou never dynod his car

truth, a dyno would have been great.

I'd have my crank crayo treated. I hear it greatly improves te strength of heavy wear rotating parts. I would also think about having the rods pistons and bearings treated.

For big boost I would also step up the 82mm pistons.

250+ hp with 8-1 compression means LOTS of boost. That is no problem with good pistons and rods... I would definitly look into your options as to the crank though. New studs all over the block also are important.(mostly head studs) and don't skimp on a cheaper head gasket. For Serious boost and high power aplications I would go HKS or TRD or somehting made for the power. Copper... I would dodge. It might work, but I would rather know I didn't buy the cheapest. The same goes for the exhaust manifold. i don't really know which you are going to use, However: HKS does make a manifold for the 4ag. I think it supports a T-25 or something... I am sure it can be made to hold a T-3 hybrid... or you can get a custom equal length from somewhere.

If you go largeport head I would try and build a custom largeport intake manifold. Instead of eight runners I would use four huge really short runners with a large TB. Not to mention a BIG Honkin intercooler. This is another place that you cannot afford to skimp. When running high boost I would have a water sprayer that woudl kick in at given RPM's. you should PM me and I will help you build one. I have all these good ideas you know.

hrm... evil clutch also needed... Monsta injectors... what size are you going to use?

I would have a regular exhaust system (3ish inch) with proper resonators and muffler for regular driving, but I would install a remote exhaust bypass valve for high horsepower high boost levels.

Also I would MOST CERTAINLY invest in a wideband O2 sensor.

I have a really nice Autometer dual imput temperature sensor set up I can sell you if you want it. They are like $300 new. I'd let you have it for $100 shipped or something. They (two of them:dual imput) read up to 400. Most people use them to guage intake temp. I was going to use it as a intake and piro meter though.

Anything I can help you with man, just let me know.

Jon