6G Celicas Forums

You don't know too much about performance, I take it from you posts. Just lisson to the guys who know things and have done things. Kwanza knows most everything you could ask about cars. And believe me, I've tested him, he knows. Trust that guy, and when he says the best performance muffler is no muffler, he is right. Look at some of his other posts. The only time I've seen him be wrong is when he's talking about drifting, the man doesn't know jack about FF cars drifting. lol, I'm just kidding.

muffler = flow restriction

no muffler = no restriction

wow we wonder why none is better?!

Like I said. I'm getting backfire cause my mufflers gone. That can't be good for performance.

You just don't get it, do you? I have never seen someone so bullheaded and stuck in there ways. I take that back, there is a few. But over something so simple, no, there aren't many.

any one have a pic of the cat that bolts up 2 the manifold?? and what each of the flanges look like??

You know, its great. I get a kick out of people like you. "Bullheaded and stuck in their ways."

I'm actually a scientist. Bullheaded is for those who have only opinions. From a strictly scientific point of view what you are saying is impossable. It's like saying when I dropped my bowling ball, it fell faster than my marble. And I'm not making an anology about the scientist thing, that really is what I do. I don't work with cars, but it is what I do.

dude your car isn't back firing at all...your hearing a little rumble here and there from normal engine functions you just don't know what your listening to. THE UNDOUBTED NON CONTROVERSIAL BEST MUFFLER IS NO MUFFLER AT ALL...they hinder flow bottom line...

i have a turbo jetta i have no muffler and its completely fine...
i've ran a celica with out a muffler and it was completely fine...

your celica like everyone elses will be fine without a muffler...


no muffler does not equal auto back fire......mufflers have nothing to do with backfiring

This post has been edited by playr158: Feb 9, 2006 - 7:24 PM

I understand what he said about the loss of low end power with no muffler - you do tend to loose low end torque (ie. at the launch) the more free flowing the exhaust. The lack of back pressure causes this. However the gain in upper RPM HP more than makes up for it. And let's face it - with the traction issues we have you can afford to loose a little wheel spin in favor of upper rpm HP.
These are facts - not theories. The reason everybody debates these issues is because everyone's cars, driving style and experiences cause differing opinions. I have done a lot of muffler swapping to get the range I was looking for. Also I'm a fluid and mechanical engineer so I know a little something about air flow.

To answer the question:
Get:
GT - Intake
Header
high flow cat
2.5" Catback exhaust with a free flowing muffler (really makes very little diff what brand)

ST - Idk probably the same stuff but perhaps 2.25" exhaust (just a guess)

Do this and you'll be fine - no where near 150HP though.

This post has been edited by Negative: Feb 10, 2006 - 1:02 PM

What about adding something like the SAFC2 to that?

he didnt add in the SAFC2 because its just not probable to the money cost to get it put it.

Actually I have one - but only because I'm going Turbo. I thought it might be usefull anyway but as it turns out the stock ECU is very efficient. With the basic mods I listed above the SAFCII is not necessary.

This post has been edited by Negative: Feb 15, 2006 - 4:57 PM

Cars do not need backpressure -- it's a myth.

Big pipes have lower initial backpressure, but quickly create turbulence (a form of backpressure) because they let the gas expand, cool and slow down. Exhaust therefore cannot exit the engine as quickly and efficiently, and energy that should be going to turning the crank is instead being used to push exhaust gases out.

Backpressure is an inevitable consequence of not having a variable exhaust size. The harder the engine is working, the more exhaust it needs to get rid of, and the ideal situation would be for the exhaust pipes to grow as the engine pumps out more fumes.

Since we don't have that technology, what we do is pick a compromise size. It's not as efficient at low revs as a small pipe, because the exhaust gases have room to expand, cool and slowdown, reducing the scavenging effect and forcing the engine to expend energy on moving what is now heavier gas. At high revs it's not as efficient as a larger pipe, because the gas bottlenecks. Either way, you get backpressure. The compromise aims to minimize that backpressure over the band, and preferably have the most efficient exhaust extraction (high velocity, lowest backpressure) at the RPM point where the engine spends the most time.

Really big pipes are good only if you're producing enough exhaust to be efficiently using them. This is where FI and NO2 come in, since they effectively simulate greater displacement and therefore a bigger engine.

The muffler is part of that compromise. Removing it alters the volume at which the exhaust system is most efficient at extracting exhaust gases from the engine.

Don't confuse free-flowing (aka high velocity) with high capacity. A small straight pipe is more freeflowing than a large serpentine pipe for good reason. And once you get the piping as straight as possible, you're back into the issue of matching size to exhaust volumes.

The rest of your statement does not support your opening statement. But we have all heard this before.
The fact is the rest of your statement above backs up what I said above. Besides experience and trial and error prove facts better than just making statements and since I'm on my 5th Celica and I have had a variety of exhausts I do have a wealth of experience. Some of the exhaust systems I put on my previous Celicas actually decreased the performance. The method above is the best setup I have had so far - not to say that there might not be room for more improvements.

One day I was driving and I heard a big "KLUNK" and all of a sudden my engine went "VROOM" instead of "vroom". I looked in my rear view mirror and I saw sparks coming out from the back of my car. I got out of the car and went to the back, and saw my muffler cracked and dragging on the floor.

Seriously I felt like my car got 100 more horse power with the muffler disconnected from the support bar and let it sit busted on the floor....

Actually, my entire point is consistent -- backpressure is never needed, it is always bad.

There are two consequences of backpressure. The first is energy is wasted as the engine has to push the exhaust gas out of the combustion chamber, meaning less energy is available to drive the wheels. The second is the imperfect evacuation of exhaust gases from the combustion chamber, meaning there is some left to foul the incoming air-fuel mixture and therefore decrease the combustion efficiency. Either way, you get less power to the wheels.

If we could design a system with no backpressure, we'd have an ideal exhaust system.

It's entirely possible to put an exhaust system on that decreases performance -- just like it's possible, to a certain point, to improve performance with a better design. These improvements are of course relative to the other exhaust systems tried. A one-inch pipe on our cars produces backpressure by lack of capacity. A four-inch pipe produces backpressure by lack of flow velocity. Either way, you have backpressure and less than the best possible performance.

Your exhaust system is not ideal. It is however, the best you can do for your style of driving with this particular engine. The best exhaust system we can do minimizes backpressure at the point where you want your engine performance to peak, because backpressure is always a drag on engine performance. Somebody else might prefer a different setup because their driving style means they prefer to maximize available power at a different RPM -- perhaps with the aim of improving low-end power. They can do so by choosing an exhaust setup that is most efficient at that chosen RPM and therefore minimizes backpressure at that RPM.

This post has been edited by Galcobar: Feb 16, 2006 - 9:10 PM