6G Celicas Forums

Hey guys, im gearing up for my 3sgte project in april….i know it’s a lil far but I find if you plan a few months ahead you get it right. So my plans are to obtain a 3rd gen 205 clip and have that installed. Im looking for 350hp to the wheel. I’ve a few questions about this though.

1. I was speaking to matt...he had the 4th gen in the turtle…but he told me something that scared me a little….the turbo and manifold are one with that engine. Im all for a newer engine and more power, but I don’t like that idea….what if I want to change my turbo? (and I do have another t3/t4 from my last 5sfte) What if I want to change the manifold to after market for better performance in order to reach my 350hp. But for now its looking like I’ll be sticking to the 3rd gen….unless you guys can show me another way without reinventing the wheel.

2. When the engine is dropped what else will I have to do hardware wise to get as close to the 350 as possible before tuning? I was looking around on ebay and I found some front mounted intercooler kits for the 3sgte for around 600….it came with the intercooler and all the necessary piping needed…the price was a little expensive if you ask me, but if that’s what’s needed then so be it! I also wanted to go fmic because I’ll be using the devils injection kit…from what I understand it works a little better with fmic instead of top mounted. Other than that I’ll be doing the obvious….3 inch piping all around and front to back. Any other thoughts?

3. As far as tuning things go, I’ll be running the devils injection kit, im looking to get the emanage ultimate and a boost controller. Any thing I’m missing?


and before youz start flaming i've been reading for months and i think i have a general idea about whats going on. i just wanted to get thoughts and ideas for MY project.

#1 confused me a bit. Am I correct in reading you think the turbo and manifold are one peice, casted to the block?

What tranny are you going to run to support the power? Is the IC kit for a mr2 or celica?

I hate to say it, but I don't think you know what you're getting into. I could be wrong tho, maybe I just didn't grasp your post too well.

in the ST215 the Turbo and exhaust manifold are 1 piece
stick to the ST205 or ST185 motor.

are you going to try and get 350 on a stock turbo + boost controller + emanage + WI?! cause thats not going to happen?

you'll need to upgrade a few more things

.,,

This post has been edited by Culpable04: Jul 23, 2007 - 2:22 PM

"The turbochargers used in the 3S-GTE engines are Toyota designs. The first and second generations used the Toyota CT26, although the second-generation turbo was modified for increased reliability. The third-generation engine uses the Toyota CT20b turbo, and the fourth uses a proprietary CT20b turbocharger whose exhaust housing is actually cast into the cylinder exhaust manifold, rather than the normal practice of a separate exhaust housing after the cylinder exhaust manifold and it can only be used on the 4th Gen 3sgte head and not backwards compatible like the CT20b of the 3rd Gen 3sgte."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_S_engine

...although I was under the impression that the turbochargers were actually a Yamaha design.

Thanks Dave!

well player i was hoping i could get that...if i had the fmic installed...open up the piping. get the devils kit on there...up the boost to about 20 psi or so...and drop a nice tuning with the emange. If the stock turbo cant do it i still have a holset t3\t4 turbo that i will be trying as well.

as far as the tranny goes...i was hoping i could get by on the stock 3s tranny with an aftermarket clutch and flywheel that will hold the power.

If this is not enough what else will i need?

Ceramic turbine won't last long at that much boost.
Stock CT26/CT20B will not get you there.
It's been tried and failed many many times.
You might be able to get near that with CT27, but that is pushing the limit.

This post has been edited by Gary: Jul 23, 2007 - 3:04 PM

i think if you we're really gonna achieve that much power, ur gonna have to do a LOT more research, and optimize more parts like some of the others have said.

This post has been edited by CaliJeff: Jul 23, 2007 - 4:09 PM

take a look at this set-up.

x Itchy b x

you can learn from his upgrades and prevent some of his findings

This post has been edited by Culpable04: Jul 23, 2007 - 6:24 PM

bigger turbo (street brawler kit, gt2871, etc..)
bigger injectors (somewhere around 660cc)
stand alone ecu (aem or nemesis)
3in exhaust
fmic with 2.5in piping (any good bar and plate cooler)
spec stage2/3 clutch

thats for a bare bones 350hp setup

You'll probably want to rebuild the bottom end, strengthen it as much as you can afford to. This way you can crank up the boost if you want to achive more HP.

while its always a good idea to overbuild everything, the stock bottom end can handle 350hp just fine.

This post has been edited by lagos: Jul 23, 2007 - 9:23 PM

im not willing to go past 350...the street brawler kit looks like what i've been looking for. I plan on running high and low boost settings....and my high ofcourse will give me the 350. so im really not looking to go the route itchy went. just the needed, well placed and tuned bolt ons.

This post has been edited by rzanology: Jul 24, 2007 - 5:53 AM

other options
TD06 20G and GT28RS.
http://www.atsracing.net/turbochargers_and_kits.htm
http://www.speed-source.net/

the stock bottom end should hold it fine. granted your positive the bottom end is in good condition. i had alot of blow by at 330whp and the turbo was only at 14.5psi my piston rings had seen way better days so did my cylinder walls. if your positive everything is in good shape then you'll be fine.

Unfortunately i took for granted mine were fine. i don't want to have to go through this again and be without the celica for another season so i just went all out building the bottom end that can handle 600-700hp to be on the safe side. will I ever use it to its full potential? Doubtful, but its a good piece of mind.

depending how far you want to go on modifications should be the deciding factor between a gen2 and a gen3. almost every part that would distinguish a gen2 from a gen3 on my engine has been changed. so there was no need to get a gen3. but if you only plan on mild mods to get to your hp goal a gen3 would be a better route.

well what about the 4th gen...with an aftermakert manifold and the street brawler kit?

the 4th gen st215 manifold is actually a nice flowing manifold so im told. shouldn't need to upgrade it. i dont know much about aftermarket support for that engine though, never looked into it.

If you want to upgrade the stock CT20b on a 4th gen 3SGTE, it's really simple. Here's what I do on my 4th gen 3sgte :

Here's the recipe to do it :

1-Buy a SSAC ST205 exhaust manifold
2-Buy a t3/t4 turbo
3-Buy a CT20b to T3/T4 manifold adaptor (including the wastegate inlet)
4-Buy an External 38mm wastegate
5-Buy a CT26-CT20b downpipe
6-Buy a T3/T4 exhaust flange
7-Weld the new flange on the downpipe

Everything is fine with these items.

The only thing is that the turbo comes very close to the radiator (3/4" near the rad) so no fan can be put there. I need to use two "pusher" Spals fan in front of the rad to keep it cool.

This is how to convert a turbo/manifold one-pieced with CT20b to a T3/T4 unit.

BTW, if you want 350HP, the stock 540cc injector on 3rd and 4th gen 3sgte will be ok. Don't need larger injectors. But if you want more than 350, you will need a injector upgrade.

Thanks

Sam