6G Celicas Forums

without some SERIOUS headwork, you WILL NOT make more power than the 3s.
trust me, i know.
you should think about a power level you would like to acheive, then use as little boost as you can to get there.

yea...i know....but if i did it thats how it would b....b/c thats the way they r supposed to b. Prolly ct26 from a 7mgte supra. a downpipe wont b hard to make at all....and i got a friend who can make an adaptor from the manifold to the turbo.

U dont think w/ mr2t pistons i can make more power than a 3s? same internals but it would b on a 2.2...idk....mayb im just wastin my time and money...but right now its all i got....and i just think it would b somethin diff. to build a 5s instead of just doin a swap. (just a matter of pesonal opinion for me) when i get done in a couple of months....plannin on christmas as my "deadline" ill let u know how its goin.

I'm going to have to agree with just snagging a 3SGTE, if you just watch a few of the importers they will run specials. A few months ago you could snag a caldina ST215 motor/ecu/wiring harness with AWD tranny for 1800 plus shipping. I got my ST185 with 34k miles for 1800 shipped. Your best bet is to wait for a deal if your motor isn't already shot. But, your money.

-Dustin

whats your horsepower goal for the car?

"mr2 pistons" wont help you make more power.
they wont fit.
like i said, if your looking to make over 300whp on a 5s, 5-6k is a "cheap" estimate.
just to get the head to flow close to what the 3s does, your looking at 2k+ in headwork, + cams.
then, a built bottom end.
then EMS,
then tuning.
thats not even talking about building a turbo kit thats capable of makeing 300whp.

troof ^

the stock compression ratio will limit you to 8-12psi depending on weather the turbo is on the bigger side of things or the smaller side of things ... (the bigger the turbo the higher you'll be able to boost before you run out of octane and detonate).

so now you say you'll just drop the CR... sure, it will cost you 400 for JE or SRP custom 5sfe pistons... so now you can run 15psi possibly but you are limited to 240hp @15psi @ 5200rpms no matter what turbo you use (the head just wont be able to outflow that much... )

if your goal is 300hp on a stock head with the lowered CR it will take about 20psi to do it by my math...

a head that flows 19% more (like a 3sgte head) can do 300hp @ 15psi @ 6200 rpms

as for the water injection for the normally aspirated car... more timing isn't always more power... you already obviously have too much timing in it... if you add WI and you add even more timing you will lose your rod bearings from the added timing...

See at idle your oil pressure is low because hte rpm's are low... too much timing advance will mean that power is delivered and pounded down on your pistons/rods earlier than it should be (which is how you end up with detonation) ...

adding base timing is not the same as adding timing up top via an EMS or adding boost at higher rpms with the help of water injection...as when the rpms are up, the oil pressure is higher so there's less possibility for bearing failure...

... i wrote too much

im plannin on doin head wrk to the new 1 im buying....that i get done for FREE....my uncle has all the tools for it.

the mr2t pistons wont fit if i bore it .020? i think thats how much bigger they r....but i havent researched the height yet....ne1 know?

sorry bud, but you need to do some more research.

the 5sfe is the overbored version of the S block...so if you use 3sgte pistons you will have a 0.020" Gap ... that and the 5sfe head is different so the compression and squish will not be ideal...

Kerr1 i did the exact same thing that you are planning on doing except i had custom pistons made for my block. yes building your own motor is fun and not many people have built a stonger 5sfte but in all honesty a 3sgte swap is the way i would go now if i could. the horsepower to spending ratio sucks

thanks for chiming in. good to hear it from someone that has done it.
i couldnt agree more.
and thats coming from a guy who LOVES his 5sfte.
if your goals are ~250 or so whp, the 5sfte can do that in spades, with TONS of torque, if you build it right, and thats in stock longblock form.
once you start trying to modify the engine at all, the 3sgte is just a better choice, plain and simple.
as far as you doing the work yourself on the head, its not that easy...you dont just go in and start removing material, thinking its gonna work, cause it wont.

O i know that.....but my uncle has been doin this kinda stuff his entire life...he builds engines for a living....and he's 60...he knows wat hes doin and we r gonna do all the research....plus....i would actually b happy w/ 250whp b/c i would have some crazy torque lol...my car doesnt need a whole lot to keep up w/ most of the ppl around here....lol...theres a 210 whp 240 that smokes pretty much a lot of ppl around... and dont get me wrong i understand where yall r sayin just do the swap...but then to me its no fun...its bought already fast stock....i mean theres plenty of things i could just buy fast....i just want to b able to say i built the motor thats in my car from ground up. Thats all im sayin.

Then ditch the F head do the 5SGTE or stroked 3SGTE.
That's what I call fun.

yea...i guess that would b pretty kewl...i think i might do that its only like 30 more dollars for the 3s head.

This post has been edited by Kerr1: Aug 4, 2007 - 1:24 PM

My take on things...

Build the following :

5sfe head + oversized valves + cleaned up combustion chamber (slightly lower compression ratio) + cleaned up head ports , especially the exhaust side) ... your uncle can probably do this easy.

98+ camry metal head gasket + new head studs (even if OEM)

Stock bottom end

2jzgte cam gear machined to fit the 5sfe camshaft end

3sgte gen 1 exhaust manifold
Upgraded T04 based CT26 or equivalent turbo
3" Downpipe to a 3" exhaust

MAP-ECU2
RX7 440cc Injectors
No need for a 2bar map since the MAP ecu has a built in map sensor...

Clutch (with 280ft-lbs holding capacity), stock flywheel is fine

3sgte oil pan or tapped 5sfe oil pan

NO MBC (just get a turbo with a wastegate set around 10-12psi)
1 step colder iridium or copper plugs

EGT gauge
Wideband O2
Boost Gauge
Oil Pressure Gauge

Colder thermostat (170*)
Intake manifold gasket...

And that's it

go price that ... probably 5000 usd ... but that's how i'd build it... should make 250 crank @ 12psi ... with the ability to tune fuel, ignition timing, and cam timing and at least 25cfm of added head flow from the oversized valves (Even if you don't do any other head work with it)...

I guess what I'm trying to say... imho the most important part is tunability

so if you want to bring it down to the core... for me ... it's the cam gear + the map ecu2 + the colder plugs ...

around that if you want to save cash go with a 3sgte manifold, CT26 based upgraded turbo (but not a stock CT26 they are crap, at least get a CT20B), 3sgte dp ...etc

you can skip the gauges , but definately get it put on a dyno for tuning...
you can skip the MBC ... i don't think the 5sfte is a type of car you'd want to overboost, underboost...etc it just doesn't have the bottom end for you to want to switch between 10psi and 25psi ... so just set it at the right boost (the one you dyno tuned at) and forget it ...

that kind of stuff...

Tuning is key...

The oversized valves are worth 1.7psi
A ported throttle body is worth 1.0 psi
Cams are worth 2.0psi roughly

so having all those and being at 12psi is like a stock 5sfe running at 16.7psi ... see what i'm saying ...