6G Celicas Forums

I have a piggy back ECU installed that makes my Celica "flexfuel". It runs way better on E85 than pump gas.

This mod is great because it increases performance and saves me a bunch of money on fuel. E85 ethanol pumps are going up everywhere, and if you have one near you, I would consider this upgrade a necessity.

E85 is 105 octane. Thats why it will increase performance, even on a 5sfe with no mods. The owners manual "recommends" 91 octane so you know that higher octane is going to increase performance. The easiest way to increase performance is to increase fuel quality, and this mod will save you money at the same time.

Those E85 gas stations are not popular on the West coast yet, especially in CA. They are mainly central and easter USA, fyi..

Ya you guys are getting the shaft in general out there. I think stations are expanding a lot faster than people realize, but this still is a regional thing. If you can use it though, its a lot better than buying a new car (prius) because you cant afford the gas.

oh boy....

your gt takes 87 PON octane, also called 91 RON octane. its a bit of an oversight in the manuals, my geo prizm has the same typo in its owners manual.


your fuel system is not made to cope with such high ethanol concentrations. over longer periods of time the higher ethanol will swell and rot rubbers in the sytem. nitrile is used in flex fuel vehicles.

the 'special box' simply tricks the PCM to inject more fuel by altering some sensor inputs. probably has it running on the rich side, even for E85.


if it is true that your car runs soo much better on E85, then its likely you have carbon deposits on your pistons or your head. the high octane of the E85 is a bandaid, cleaning the deposits out would be the correct thing to do.


i could go on and on...

your 5S-FE with its 10* btdc timing and 9.5:1 cr and no VVT is not anywhere needing the high knock resistance of E85.

Actually, the "box" has a dial that lets you adjust the trim if you want to. I'm running a much leaner setting then I could. I don't really care about the extra power I could get. I don't have anywhere to get in that much of a hurry and the roads in my area are all super slow.

Ethanol is a really good solvent so it actually cleans out carbon deposits. It runs very smoothly. I can shift to a higher gear earlier. Theres lots of benefits.

Ethanol does run better, especially in the mountains. It is 34% oxygen by weight. Less oxygen has to be pulled into the manifold. It burns colder too, not as much energy is lost to heat.

points i was about to make in his other thread




Bull****. I'm poor but I'm not stupid, & I don't care if you feed your engine bull**** but don't endorse others to do so.

Our engines are incapable of efficiently burning ethanol in stock form, As bitter points out spark isnt advanced enough for the high burn resistance of 105 ron which means lost energy of each piston blast, The low 9.5 compression ratio of your 2.2 FE pistons will further increase the high ron effect (burn resistance) so to combat these power decreasing burn slowdowns you're running your engine unacceptably lean once again further decreasing power all the while acknowledging that alcohol has oxygen content which by nature of increasing oxygen requires .... guess what? more petrol!!!!!!

hell yeah your getting better mpg and paying less at the pump....

but all the while your engine and your fuel lines are paying a tremendous price for it.... not to mention what happens when you try to floor what you've just turned into an ultra-lean, energycontent -lacking, ignition-retarded, low-compression motor

well done, you've increased performance.


PS. I wouldn't even use E10 on my stock 3S-GE, I only fill with 95 RON.

This post has been edited by delusionz: Jul 7, 2008 - 4:45 PM

Believe what you want about the rubber components. If you want to continue to believe the oil companies that you they sell a better product, thats your decision. I was just trying to save some people from having to buy $5 gasoline. The corrosion myth is completely false though.

http://www.change2e85.com/servlet/Page?template=Myths

"Ethanol has a lower ignition temperature so the engine overall will run cooler increasing power. It also burns slower so instead of just burning out in one violent explosion forcing the piston down, it continues to burn the entire length of the piston stroke expanding gases more evenly and smoothly. So running E85 will give any engine more power over any pump gas. Also E85 is 105 octane. Gas comes in 85, 89 and 91 octane. The 105 octane of E85 will help to eliminate knocks and pings. All of these benefits will make an engine run smoother and quieter."

Also, I am obviously aware that the 5SFE motor does not have a lot of potential for increasing power or efficiency, especially because it has no VVT. If one were to try to maximize power, you could change the timing to 0 degrees and increase the compression ratio to 12:1.

12:1 huh? Hehehe... because it's THAT easy.

Well first off as with anything in a car its a give and take. Your are not getting anyMORE power out of the engine it just is making more of its potential power(more performance would be true if it was a high compression motor). And unless u have made huge changes to the block, cooling and fuel system, u may be doing more harm then good. Dont get me wrong i would love 2 do this 2 my car. But E85 is ethanol mostly alcohol. Alcohol reacts differently with the metals and especially the rubber in your car. Alcohol can even weaken your seals AND aluminum components over time to the point of cracking very easily. Alcohol is naturally very hygroscopic (meaning it will pull moisture right out of the air) this means unless u plan on sealing or draining your gas tank every night u may end up with water in your fuel system. And the corrosion and seal issue is absolutely true I have seen it first hand. And u r forgetting that gas does have some petroleum in it. And as small as it is, it does provide a small amount of lubrication in the combustion chamber that E85 does not equal. This lubrication is taken into account when an OEM sets clearances. Honestly I am not trying 2 put u on the spot but i would not run E85 in a Celica, or any non-stock E85 engine, without making major adjustments first, your just asking for major trouble. And when it is all said and done you will only get about a 4% increase in MPG E85 needs 2 be about a $1 less a gallon to even substantiate a switch, unless your doing it just to pay more $$$ but help the environment!

because a company that makes money off E85 is going to give you the truth i have some bridges for sale and some snake oil.

Sorry to say, the information provided about the rubber seals/gaskets/hoses is true. Yes E85 destroys the typical gasket/hose materials at a much higher rate than standard gasoline. In addition to this E85 is inhereintly more dangerous (for pumps/dispensing equipment) due to it's caustic nature being more prone to static build up while gasoline is more of a lubricant in nature.

-Terracar

Well of course its not worth it unless E85 is significantly cheaper in your area. At my station its $1.20 less than regular gas, so it saves me a lot of money. Before I got the ECU upgrade, I was running E85 on the car totally stock. Worked great to ethanol concentrations of about 50%-60%. At 85% on the stock ECU power was noticeably less, but putting a couple gallons of regular gas into the tank could fix that immediately.

About corrosion/lubrication issues, I think y'all might need to take some chemistry classes (I'm a chemical engineering major!). There are actually two types of ethanol, known as "aqueous ethanol" and "anhydrous ethanol".

Aqueous ethanol means the ethanol is in a solution with water. This is the kind of ethanol you can drink to get drunk. This is also the variety of ethanol that is sold as fuel in Brazil. In Brazil, ethanol fuel can contain up to 5% water. Aqueous ethanol is more corrosive than gasoline, and it does have the tendency to pull additional water molecules out of the air.

Anhydrous ethanol on the other hand has had all the water molecules removed. This is a very complex refining process because the last 2% of water is very hard to remove. Anhydrous ethanol is then stabilized by blending it with gasoline. The resulting mixture is called "gasohol", and can vary in ethanol concentrations from 10% ethanol (regular gasoline you can buy at the gas station) to 98% ethanol (the type of fuel used by Indy cars and Nascar).

Aqueous ethanol IS more corrosive and probably would destroy the fuel system, but this is not the type of fuel sold in the U.S. Anhydrous ethanol can be used though in any concentration. 85% ethanol/gasoline blend is not significantly more corrosive than a 10% ethanol/gasoline blend which all cars are guaranteed to be tolerant of. By removing the water and then mixing with gasoline, ethanol has different chemical properties than aqueous ethanol.