6G Celicas Forums

Well I didn't want to start this thread yet since I am still sourcing parts but I really need help getting parts since I am not sure what to buy. I have a 7afe now but i believe it has a rod knock and was told by a mechanic that to change the piston and rods the whole block has to be machined and will cost too much money, even though its only 350 dollars on parts or so for OEM pistons rods and rings he recommended me finding a new engine which I cannot find for less than 750 including shipping.

but if I buy piston and rods why wont they just drop right in?

I also have a 4age blue top head in my house that I got for the build before I found out my engine might be blown but if I have to buy a new engine its going to cost way to much to even begin the 7age conversion. My engine has a constant "knocking sound" coming from the cylinder head at around 1500 rpm it goes away at high rpm, It has 155k, abused but still runs strong. But during all this time looking for a motor (and saw a 7age with 115hp) personally started thinking that going with just the 7afte idea might more cost effective and since the 7a gets to peak torque so quick it should be more fun to drive( thoughts please), but anyway anybody with any experience on building a motor does it really have to be completely machined.

thanks

This post has been edited by Cevax: Jan 6, 2009 - 3:38 PM

im confused, your mechanic says its rod knock but you say it comes from the head? two very different parts of the motor and its hard to confuse the two. something in the head would be more of a tick, the crankcase would be alot louder that gets worse with higher revs. someone correct me if im wrong. Either way, one is way more serious than the other so be absolutely sure. you should check this website out: http://www.supramania.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20486

if it is rod knock then a rod wont just drop in because its not just a matter of replacing worn/damaged components. any play in the moving parts within an engine can throw the whole reciprocating mass off balance, putting alot more stress on the block specifically the bearings. In the case of rod knock, the end cap can eventually blow off and the rod will go flying through your engine bay but thats the worst case scenerio. Usually, if rod knock, or anything else for that matter, goes on long enough, all of the load bearing surfaces are going to get worn down, not to mention unevenly. So even if you replaced the culprit parts, you will be working against yourself and the whole thing will shake itself to pieces. You need to get the the block checked and ground back to spec. This then involves oversize parts ect ect...

your last paragraph is hard to follow, you have a 4age which you wanted to use to make ur motor into a 7age? but then it started to knock? so now you want a 7afte?

no turbo till knock gets fixed?

This post has been edited by enderswift: Nov 27, 2008 - 4:12 AM

Well my original idea was to build a 7age using a bluetop head I have from a 4age, but when I brought the car to the mechanics for compression testing we discovered that noise coming from the head. It starts at around 1500rpm but goes away at 2500k and up its not a ticking noise it a very fast "rustling noise" hard to explain and it is loud when outside the car. Then thing is that the car runs fine, its auto no vibrations and still tops out in third at 110 very quickly faster than my sis 7a with bolt ons. That is why I am asking if the car runs fine I just didn't think the motor had to be machined


(And sorry for the confusion but I meant I have a 4age head in my house that came from a 4age bluetop (i don't have the whole motor) yes I started a 7age project and my original thoughts was to use my block, then was told that the engine is probably no good and recommended to buy a new engine. Since a motor is going to cost me 750 after shipping it will be more cost effective to just build that motor into a 7afte since adding the GE head to the new 7a motor generally runs at about another 1k or so with cams, shaft and a port job, so thats 1750+ tuning for 115 hp (probably). Ok so with the cost of the new motor the 7age is not worth it. So I started buying 7afte parts and right now I have the inter cooler, t4/t3 turbo, pipes, and waiting for the stupid credit card authorization number so I can pay for the manifold and blow off valve, but If i can fix my engine and save my self the aggravation of buying a new one it would be great)

This post has been edited by Cevax: Nov 27, 2008 - 10:06 AM

if i were you , i would rebuild my motor if you wanted to stay with the 7a, or look at swapping a 3sgte for the same or cheaper cost. to rebuild your 7a you will need to get the pistons, and have the block machined. i built up a little d15b7 motor in my honda, for around $1500.00 ,that is new oem pistons(.020 oversize), wrist pins, rings, main and rod bearings, Stainless steel valves(with a 5 way angel grind), the head was port and polished, and the block was milled out .020 for the pistons, crank was micro polished, and i had the head and block decked to bump up compression. all that was done for $1500.00 . i know it was a honda not a toyota, but i am building a 20v 7a motor right now ,and i got the pistons (oem .020 oversized) and the bearings, wrist pins for 150.00 and i was charged 130.00 to have the block milled for the pistons, and the crank micro polished. i am doing all the tear down and rebuild work myself so i know that saves alot , but the machine work is not real exspensive. in the end if you rebuild it then you know what it has and where you stand , no " well i think it wont blow a rod, or i think the rings and pistons are ok" . this is just what i would do.

if you do a price differance of the 7a v.s the 3s swap wont be much differance.
7a rebuild $ 1700.00
turbo kit$2000.00
a good tune $1500.00
total= $5200.00

3s swap $5000.00 - $6000.00
this is just a very ruff price quote ,but it may help in your disision

This post has been edited by trd94: Nov 27, 2008 - 3:20 PM

I didn't really read everything I just skimmed, so forgive me if I ask or say something you already explained.

As far as a 7AFE rebuild it'll probably cost you about $500-600 in internal parts (that's with my discount from work which is pretty similar to ToyotaWorld pricing minus shipping), if you were going to go about replacing everything (i.e. O2 sensor, alternator, radiator, fuel filter, etc) you should count on another $500 or so. So say $1000-1200 total, which is around what my 7A rebuild ended up costing me.

As far as what your mechanic said, you may have to have the block machined but it depends on the damage to the cylinder walls. Of course you'd need to tear the motor apart to find out. The size of the pistons depends on the cylinder bore size which you would need to find out using the numbers stamped on the block itself, so again, you'd have to take the motor apart to find out.

You can check out my 7A Rebuild thread and see if that helps at all, http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=51960&

Well I took the time today to take a closer look at the motor, the sound is definitely coming from the top end. I have no idea what it is, could be a tensioner for all I know but it looks like there is rust in the radiator and most likely there will be rust in the motor too, oil is clean though no coolant in it.

I considered the 3sgte but I have been to hell and back when it comes to ordering engines, I tried the 20valve route and was screwed and that is why I am trying to avoid the engine replacement route. I did find this on eBay though
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/TOYOTA-CELI...sQ5fAccessories
see that "looks" like a good deal before shipping but I am sure shipping will probably cost more than the block. But since this is my only car having a motor remain in the car can really help me a lot.

so you are putting together a 7ag as well. your putting together a lot of projects. I would also take the top end off your hands with the t4 manifold if you are going to swap a ge head if in good condition.

sorry the 7a head is spoken for ,but if something comes up i will let you know.

My mechanic has a 1zzfe engine for only $400, the mounts don't look the same but does anybody know if this motor will fit inside a 96 corolla. I looked all over the web and it looks like nobody has done it before. Just asking though I am not about to start buying parts for this motor

This post has been edited by Cevax: Nov 29, 2008 - 6:52 AM

it could fit ,but it is not worth the swap .thats why nobody really does this . the 1zz is a little weaker in the bottom then the 7a, i have done a turbo kit setup for my brother on his 00 rolla and the rods started knocking after about 2 months of low boost , plus it is a real pain to tune. now i am sure others will have a differant opion than mine ,but this is just what i have seen and delt with.

So I took the car to the shop today to have the mechanic take a thorough look at it instead of trying to figure out mysterious sounds. He found a few problems one of which was previously two types of coolant where mixed creating some brown sludged and its all over my cooling system along with rust. He believes there must have been water added and left there for a long time. The other is that the engines has a leak ( I knew about this) But this leak is right on the back of the gasket and could have cause damage to the head of the car(causing noise on the top end) and last but not least there actually is coolant in the block so the engine is screwed. Surprising really since it runs so smooth.

A new short block is going to cost about $600, I tried buying a 20valver before and it didn't work out so well, might have been for the better since the high power band is worthless where i live. So on Friday I want to place an order on a 4agze thats on ebay, issue is that it does not have a transmission, ecu, harness, or anything else for that matter for 1100. There is another that has everything for 1549 but I don't need the transmission(nor can i use it) and the inter cooler. I don't really care if its a ae101 or the other I just want the supercharger noise and a stronger block.

But what do you all think the 1549 (+300 shipping+ border fee) one seems really expensive I have seen st185 3sgte for cheaper but I cant afford the cost of the swap for a 3s. The 1100 for the ecu and harness alone cost $500 but shipping is only 120 bucks since it weighs nothing since it has no transmission and its in new jersey.

Also anybody here done this swap before, I have heard a lot of people having issues with the supercharger not engaging
(edit- also the mechanic said that he never done this type of work before (everybody owns a Honda) I know Dr tweak does wiring harness so it should be plug and play right?.... the mounts are the same and I am going to use a c52 so I can keep parts to a minimal.
kinda wish I could just drop it off somewhere and just have it done....sign kinda miss the Honda

This post has been edited by Cevax: Dec 2, 2008 - 9:35 PM

Well I got a motor, hopefully it comes in soon , I am going to try something a little different I couldnt find a 4agze that was worth it. You have to be out of your mind to sell a motor for over 1500 that is now over 20 years old with unknown miles.



This post has been edited by Cevax: Dec 18, 2008 - 10:54 AM

what do I do when the motor has no harness or ecu? just source it or would a stand alone ecu work

you stick your thumb in your butt, cause thats what happens when you dont do your research and buy a motor with no harness or ECU. you end up sitting there, with your thumb in your ass saying "why did i BUY THIS?!?!"
you'll need to at least source a harness (possibly tweek could make you one?) and the ecu (or engine management of your choice) and then sourcing whatever sensors ect that didnt come with the package as well.
it really pays to do your research BEFORE you buy anything, there are TONS of threads on this board, that ALWAYS say make sure you get a complete setup with ANY motor you buy thats not the original motor in your car. you ALWAYS need the harness, ecu, any and all sensors from the engine and engine bay ect.
its just simple common sense.

OK i was just asking, I was looking around for different deals and found one for 560 with no harness, transmission or ecu and was just wondering if I should have got that instead. I ordered mine for 1200 and it says it has the following #
ENGINE
#
5 SPEED TRANSMISSION ( it doesn't fit and this is why i was looking to see if I could have got a better deal without one)
#
ENGINE WIRING
#
ECU
#
ENGINE SENSOR
#
AC COMPRESSOR
#
POWER STEERING
#
ALTERNATOR
#
STARTER
#
CLUTCH, FLYWHEEL , PRESSURE PLATE
#
THROTTLE BODY
#
MAP SENSOR
#
FUSE BOX

wow! a little harsh dont you think? it was a very simple question ,and i think this is a little over kill for a answer

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wow! a little harsh dont you think? it was a very simple question ,and i think this is a little over kill for a answer
[/quote]

hey trd what size should the IC pipes be, 2.5 or 3.5.

2.5 ,will be the best for a street car. i would not go any bigger then 3" .

I have been looking through ebay and I have found a few universal turbo kits, I have a used t4 turbo, a BOV and a few other parts but these kits are cheaper than getting the rest of those parts separately or just buying the whole kit. I have read through these threads and you guys don't have good things to say about ebay turbos but maybe an extra one might not be a bad idea.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BASE-TURBO-...A1%7C240%3A1318

This looks like it includes everything please let me know if anything else is required(other than electronics-manifold).
I need to get this done by February since I have to drive to Canada (prob without tuning) I know the engine might blow up on the way there but I am going to do it anyway.

i dont know, just remember you get what you pay for. as far as driving to canada with out a tune..... i would not do it , you may just end up back at square one. with all the money you send on it would be a shame to waste it like that.