6G Celicas Forums

So I was planning on doing another 5sfte set-up, but thought why not just go about doing a 5sgte set-up.

I don't plan on running an EMS anytime soon. Although down the road its obvious that I will have to.

The plan is to buy a complete 3rd gen 3sge motor. Thats right a 3sge motor. The plan is to just take the head and all the electronics and TRY to sell the block. I already have turbo parts, minus the turbo. I will run with the 3sge ecu, but with the emanage ultimate.

Injectors since the 3sge is side feed, I will probably go with 540s. Not sure what injectors the 3rd gen 3sge uses.

I have been in contact with MCS and I will be probably be getting a crank that has already been turned down to accept the stock 3sgte rods I am using. The cost of their crank is 300, but I am in the process of shopping around to see if its cheaper to machine down the crank I have out of the 94 block. The plus side to MCS is the fact that they use 98+ cranks only.

I will have the wiring harness converted for me by Doc.

I did originally plan to build the bottom end with the following parts and get the 5sfe cams regrind from Geoff at Colt Cams for $400, oversized valves from a 2jz and do the head up. To be honest the machining is the thing that makes both plans pricey.

I DO want to build a 5sfTe beast, but at the same time Just think of having a 5sgte.

What do you guys think I should do. I'm going to be honest, I have been researching day and night for the past week. Not going to bed until 4AM and the first thing I do when I wake up is log onto the internet.

Lets make this final and end my dilemma.

-Will

This post has been edited by bccentaur3: Feb 19, 2009 - 11:14 PM

welcome to the club - do the 2.2 stroker/5sgte. will cost more but WAY more power potential...join mr2oc and check out garrets website here http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarre...mp;rom=T9438481

Have been talking to Eazy lately on mr2oc. On Garretts website when they say 2.2 stroker is that the 3sgte block with the 5sfe crank? If so thats not what I'm doing. I'm using the 5sfe block and crank with cp 8.5:1 pistons and stock 3sgte rods. The head I made it finally today I will be using a 3rd gen 3sge head. So the block will be for sale this summer when I get the motor. Now in the mean time I am going to be building the block. Hopefully matching up the coolant passages properly.

My plan is to buy a cheapo 3sgte head gasket, match it up to the 5sfe block and drill the coolant passages if needed. I hope this goes well, because I want to have the block built by the time I get the head.

SO fingers crossed on the way I am doing it. Because I've read that you are supposed to use the head gasket from the head you are using on the block. But I really don't want to order the 3sge motor yet, just want the block built so I can pass up some time over spring break.

ANyone with insight let me know if its a good idea to just go ahead and buy a cheap 3sgte head gasket put it up against the 5s block and drill the coolant passages on the block to match the gasket.

from what i understand the bore and deck height on the blocks are the same, the real difference-displacement and compression wise- are the cranks....
also heard that the 5s blocks are stronger then the 3s blocks...

do a little more research on the 2.2 strokers and you will find that people are taking the 5s blocks and cranks and machining the cranks to fit the 3s rods or aftermarket 3s rods and getting the same pistons you are getting

to answer the question: 2.2 stroker = 3s or 5s block with 5s crank machined to fit 3s rods, with a 3sge or 3sgte head on it

so you WILL have a 2.2 stroker if you continue what you are doing

-also i am not understanding all of your talk about the blocks in the last post about getting anohter one and building one and selling the other and all this business...please clarify.

I understand the difference between the 5sgte, 5sge, and 3sgte stroker set-up, no need to explain to me. I've done countless hours of research and I think I'm going to pick up a gen 3 head gasket from kbox to make sure everything is good for coolant passages.

Now some may give me crap about using the stock 3rd gen 3sge and a piggyback for fmu, but thats what I want to run in the mean time just to see how things go.

SO to clarify for you. I am going to pick up a COMPLETE 3rd gen 3sge motor. I will be stripping the entire head assembly from the motor. Now the block that is left I will be selling.

The head will go onto the built 5s block. Unless I can't cant a machine shop locally to machine down the rod journals for a good price, I will be picking up a crank from MCS. I will be using stock rods and bearings. CP Pistons will be bought before the end of this week. Someone said that wiseco pistons are better quality but I can't seem to find ones for a 5sfe block.

The head will be left stock and maybe, just maybe upgraded cams. As for the injectors, I don't know what would best suit the turbo I decide to go with, but I will need to find a 3rd gen turbo manifold for a good price. Don't really want to fork over 400 for a manifold.

But this WILL happen this summer. Like my coaches always told me, where theres a Will theres a way.

And correction. The bore is not the same. Stock bore on a 3sgte is 86mm where as the stock bore on a 5s is 87. CP pistons will increase the stock bore. 5s has a longer stroke to, which is good for boost.

Plus I opt to go with a 3rd gen so I don't have to deal with an afm. YES YES if I went standalone I won't need to worry, but I'm not going standealone yet.

This post has been edited by bccentaur3: Feb 18, 2009 - 3:05 AM

you my friend are doing a 2.2 stroker then good luck with it...460hp-stock cams;)

Its not a stroker if I use the 5s block with the 3s head. Its a hybrid. The stroker is the 3s motor with the 5s crank.

go for it ill help u put the motor together..

My mistake 3sge 3rd gen is top feed.

So I went ahead and ordered a 3rd gen 3sgte head gasket to match up the coolant passages on the 5sfe. I also put my order in for a machined down 98+ 5sfe crank from Shaun at MCS.

Do I need to have the pistons in hand to have my block bored?

My rods should be here by the end of the week.

People are haters man. lol....

Should get the machined down crank in a couple of weeks.

Rods end of this week.

Got the emanage ultimate today.

Going to the machine shop tomorrow to see how much they charge for boring, honing, and decking the block.

I also made a mistake by ordering the 2nd turbo manifold, because I WAS going with the gen 1 3sgte head, but decided I didn't want AFM so I am going with a 3rd gen 3sge. So Tonight I bought a 3rd gen turbo manifold for $70 shipped. WOOOT!!!!

Oh I also picked up an engine stand today for my build.

Oh and I gotta get a 3rd gen head gasket that fits up to an 88mm bore. I canceled my order for the stock 3rd gen HG last night. Sucks I gotta fork over 300 for a damn HG. But you gotta do what you gotta do.

FYI - you can use Mitsubishi / DSM top feed injectors with the 3SGE rail. I'm using RC 550cc injectors with the stock 3rd 3SGTE ECU and injector resistor pack with no issues. You'll also need the injector pigtails if you go this route.

The side feed intake manifold is quite good for handling boost, but you'll want to disable the ACIS butterflies to keep them in the closed condition. Otherwise the turbulence they create when opening will kill your power.

For this setup, which timing belt will you use?

Ahh... I spent lots of time researching that. Since I plan on using a Gen 2 water pump 98 Solara oil pump I intend on using a 2nd Gen timing belt.

Still trying to look for the 3rd gen head gasket for a decent price. I couldn't find an hks hg, but I did happen to find an Apexi HG on rhdjapan.com. Still its almost $300 bucks.

I recall having problems with the 2nd gen timing belt on my hybrid motor ( 2nd gen 3SGTE block / 3rd gen head). Be sure to keep the 3rd gen belt around just in case.

....It may have been the tensioner though, I had two 3rd gen 3SGE's and 1 of the timing belt tensioners' was shorter than the other.

Can't I use the gen 2 tensioner and idler pulley?

IIRC the tensioner pulley on the 3rd gen is the same, but the mounting is different.

This post has been edited by bccentaur3: Feb 20, 2009 - 12:45 AM

Well sounds like some have already corrected you on some of the errors. Some advice - since you are shopping around for machine shops - make sure they know how to properly do it for forged pistons. There is a difference in how the stock cast pistons behave and how the forged behave. Just something to keep in mind. What about oil squirters ?


Good luck on selling the 3rd gen block - unfortunately it offers no advantages to most.

-Terracar

Terracar makes a good point, I think I mentioned this the other day. Before you bring it to the machine shop, make sure you have the piston manufacturer's specs for piston-to-wall clearance. You might have to slightly alter the factory specs. For example, 4032 aluminum will expand 15% more than 2618 aluminum. If the shop tells you it doesn't matter, run away.

Well, Terracar theres many people out there that run the 5sgte with big horsepower with no issues. Yes the 5s block doesn't come with oil squirters, but those guys seem to manage. From reading the 3rd gen 3sge block actually does come with oil squirters. Someone can actually use the block lets say someone got a 1st gen 3sge and blows their motor.

Went to the machine shop today to see how much they charge. He told me he needed my pistons, so I will have that soon.

$270 for hot tank, boring, honing and decking the block.

Just waiting to get a used 3rd gen hg from Scott. Once I get that I'll line up the passages. Once that is done the block will be off to the machine shop.