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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 20, '06 Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) ![]() |
BEAMS is too high compression for a turbo. An interesting way to look at torque vs. hp is a chainsaw. Everyone knows Stihl makes great chainsaws, and Husqvarna isn't doing too bad themselves. The difference between the two is that Stihl makes their chainsaws with torque, and Husqvarna tries to make the chain spin faster. The idea behind Stihl is that they want the chain to spin, no matter what. Husqvarna on the other hand wants their chain to spin ridiculously fast to get through the wood. Both methods work just fine, but once the wood gets tough, the Husqvarna lacks the torque to keep the blade spinning as fast and won't cut as well as the Stihl, that is still going. Basically, torque is going to keep your car moving, even under load, such as heavy acceleration. But hp is nice too ![]() there are thousands of beams blacktop and 2zz owners who have turbo'd there 11.5 :1 comp engines who would disagree with that statement ![]() also do chain saws come with gearboxes? This post has been edited by Edophus: Aug 13, 2009 - 4:00 PM |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 24, '08 From Orange County, CA Currently Offline Reputation: 33 (100%) ![]() |
pretty much if i an integra type r vs a ss-III 3sge w/ beams have a race in an uphill 40 degree climb. the celica would win.... Am i on the right track???
thats a crazy build that fensport accomplished!! i have the car and driver magazine of the rod millen 500 hp 7th gen 3sgte awd. only did 0-60 in 5 sec. Kinda slow considering awd and all that power. Didnt say much about the car besides it saying that was too much hp for the car to handle!, but somehow fensports did a better job than Rod Millen.. hmm wierd ![]() This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Aug 13, 2009 - 6:37 PM -------------------- Group buy to replicate Narrow E series transaxle parts
http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...p;#entry1107514 |
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Aug 16, '03 From Bay area Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) ![]() |
pretty much if i an integra type r vs a ss-III 3sge w/ beams have a race in an uphill 40 degree climb. the celica would win.... Am i on the right track??? thats a crazy build that fensport accomplished!! i have the car and driver magazine of the rod millen 500 hp 7th gen 3sgte awd. only did 0-60 in 5 sec. Kinda slow considering awd and all that power. Didnt say much about the car besides it saying that was too much hp for the car to handle!, but somehow fensports did a better job than Rod Millen.. hmm wierd ![]() in a straight line, the car with the most HP will win. Torque doesn't really matter in a straight line. The instances where the cars start doing turns and the engines are pushed out of the power band is where torque matters. That is also why the celica GTS is faster then a ITR in a drag race, the gear box was design for the engine and you stay in lift everytime you shift. Other wise the gts engine is not that great. I'm not sure if any of you watch top gear. But they had an episode where they compared s2000 vs z4 vs boxer. Even though the s2000 had the most hp out of the rest of the cars, it was slowest on the track. |
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Mar 11, '06 From Way South Chicago Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) ![]() |
out of lift the 2zz isnt sooo bad, but below 2500 rpm theres just no power at all. and then theres the dead-zone around 5000 rpm...and the engine shakes a bit at 2000 rpm...
but my god it sounds good! -------------------- |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 24, '08 From Orange County, CA Currently Offline Reputation: 33 (100%) ![]() |
ok i think i got the concept of torque
hey edophus, nice reply. Im liking the gear ratios of the s54 with helical. So i think i remembering asking another member what he topped out in the 3sge redtop and he said 147 mph. What was the fastest you ever went in the celica -------------------- Group buy to replicate Narrow E series transaxle parts
http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...p;#entry1107514 |
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 20, '06 Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) ![]() |
ok i think i got the concept of torque hey edophus, nice reply. Im liking the gear ratios of the s54 with helical. So i think i remembering asking another member what he topped out in the 3sge redtop and he said 147 mph. What was the fastest you ever went in the celica I think the fastest i took it up to was an indicated 140+ mph before i backed off.... outrunning a prelude 2.2 vtec ![]() http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShDyuuYaFCY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTLPZ1bVgHs |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() Joined Jun 18, '08 From Monaghan, Eire Currently Offline Reputation: 1 (100%) ![]() |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShDyuuYaFCY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTLPZ1bVgHs You're that guy!! You're my hero!! I've watched those vids tons. If you ever on holidays in Ireland I'm buying you pints. There is a few turbo'd blacktops here in ireland, and successfully so. I'll say it again the noise from the beams is amazing, as good as the Honda engines are they still sound like a 125cc motorbike having a heart attack. Word! |
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 20, '06 Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) ![]() |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShDyuuYaFCY http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTLPZ1bVgHs You're that guy!! You're my hero!! I've watched those vids tons. If you ever on holidays in Ireland I'm buying you pints. There is a few turbo'd blacktops here in ireland, and successfully so. I'll say it again the noise from the beams is amazing, as good as the Honda engines are they still sound like a 125cc motorbike having a heart attack. Word! thanks! always nice to know someone appreciated my work ![]() the beams sounds even better revving up past 8000rpm, its pretty interesting but in japan they raced the ss3 celica's in n1 endurance racing and you cant modify the engine for that, they used a 8400rpm rev limit, the heads will produce peak power at 8600 rpm with no modifications, but due to piston speed at that point its better to keep it to 8000rpm, its an engine with great potential, as soon as you fit an aftermarket ecu to them they come alive. If i'd kept mine any longer i'd have matched the increased rev limit to an e56 gearbox with 4.9 final drive which would have given the same top speed in each gear as the stock car, but nearly 20% more torque at the wheels, eat your heart out v6 owners muahahahaha ![]() This post has been edited by Edophus: Aug 14, 2009 - 7:48 AM |
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Dec 8, '03 From Lancaster CA Currently Offline Reputation: 6 (100%) ![]() |
QUOTE BEAMS is too high compression for a turbo. and the 2ZZ isnt. i dotn know what the compression of the Beams is but the 2ZZ has 11.5:1 compression and it can be boosted all day long. just have a good tune. Stock 2ZZ's have easily passed the 300HP mark. -------------------- 2001 Celica GT-S Turbo
1997 Supra TT 6speed 1997 Celica 3MZ/1MZ swap 1990 Celica All-Trac |
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Dec 8, '03 From Lancaster CA Currently Offline Reputation: 6 (100%) ![]() |
out of lift the 2zz isnt sooo bad, but below 2500 rpm theres just no power at all. and then theres the dead-zone around 5000 rpm...and the engine shakes a bit at 2000 rpm... but my god it sounds good! nobody ever lives below 2500 in a 2ZZ so thats not an issue. and i dont know what this dead spot you mention. and i have no engine shaking at 2000. but yes it does sound good. I did a high speed pass for some friends and they say it sounds like a jet engine when im at full boost -------------------- 2001 Celica GT-S Turbo
1997 Supra TT 6speed 1997 Celica 3MZ/1MZ swap 1990 Celica All-Trac |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 24, '08 From Orange County, CA Currently Offline Reputation: 33 (100%) ![]() |
very awesome vids. I've seen those before!
![]() so what kinda of mods did that white integra have and what mods did you have on your ss-III celica? ya ive heard the engine one time in person, when the car had just been turned on for a minute and man did it sounded really good!!! and that 2.2 ltr prelude that you raced how much hp does that thing have 200? how does that work with the ecu. what kind of aftermaket ecu did you have on the celica? if you had one at all? Oh and i was also thinking that since the 3sge never made it to the US cause of emissions, so why did toyota go with a 1.8 2zz-ge i mean c'mon now 2.0 would of had more torque and a mere 180hp isnt enough. I guess honda has been building better engines than toyota has for a longer time... gotta have respect for the honda engineer's, but no respect for the dumb honda race boys that think their civic with swapped b18c5 is the ****, cause of vtec. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojB7KkaR03I haha and this is what i mean!!!! haha its funny This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Mar 11, 2017 - 3:10 AM -------------------- Group buy to replicate Narrow E series transaxle parts
http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...p;#entry1107514 |
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 20, '06 Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) ![]() |
thanks
![]() ![]() Yup the prelude was a 197 bhp version, a bb1 if i remember right which is one of the slower variants and i really ditched him ![]() Didnt have any aftermarket ecu in those vids but after that i made a loom that meant i could use a 1zz-fe power-fc to control the beams as you dont get an off the shelf ecu for the beams, so this was a good cheap option that required very little wiring changes to work, i dont have the car or ecu anymore but have the loom still if any beams owners wanted to go down this route. The power-fc now lives on in a turbo charged gen 7 in ireland, so proof that the ecu itself didnt need to be modified. This post has been edited by Edophus: Aug 15, 2009 - 8:29 AM |
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Mar 11, '06 From Way South Chicago Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) ![]() |
out of lift the 2zz isnt sooo bad, but below 2500 rpm theres just no power at all. and then theres the dead-zone around 5000 rpm...and the engine shakes a bit at 2000 rpm... but my god it sounds good! nobody ever lives below 2500 in a 2ZZ so thats not an issue. and i dont know what this dead spot you mention. and i have no engine shaking at 2000. but yes it does sound good. I did a high speed pass for some friends and they say it sounds like a jet engine when im at full boost you don't get that little shake at 2000 rpm at a stand still? don't really feel it going down the road. its a balance issues/mount issue with the 2zz engine. of course you don't get a deadspot at 5000ish you're boosted. NA though, theres a slightly boggy spot where the low cams are running out steam and lift hasnt kicked in yet. -------------------- |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Oct 30, '03 From IL Currently Offline Reputation: 15 (100%) ![]() |
how can people just assume the results of the integra vs celica like that?
hasn't anyone seen the best motoring video where the 7gc does a test against ek9 dc2 dc5 and other? if i remember correctly, the 7gc lost to both civic and integra edit: found the link these are all stock cars with professional drivers at the same level so you can't complain about driver or mods. 0-400m race race part 1 race part 2 This post has been edited by Shigexile: Aug 16, 2009 - 5:22 PM -------------------- PROJECT 6TH GEN
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 20, '06 Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) ![]() |
in a discussion about engines just how relevant is a video of some track focused hondas that weigh 80-100kg less than the non track focused celica's going round a track? pretty meaningless imo
![]() btw i have assumed nothing, i have actually raced both my 2zz corolla and beams celica against dozens of type-r's both on and off track and strangely enough when all things are equal, ie, weight, tyres and suspension there similar in performance to the point of being identical. This post has been edited by Edophus: Aug 16, 2009 - 5:56 PM |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 24, '08 From Orange County, CA Currently Offline Reputation: 33 (100%) ![]() |
uhh ya i totally agree edophus. The integra type r is a track ready car straight out of the factory. those celica's are not.
thanks for sharing those vids Shigexile. Ok guys finally found a vid of a SS-III vs integra type r vs mr2 g-limited with beams vs rivals at the track. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsAwP77056k...feature=related a little disappointing at first, but ill explain later doing some research.... Type R has Aluminum block, lightweight front windshield, full stainless steel exhaust, no sound insulation, lighter battery, plastic headlights, optional A/C This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Feb 25, 2017 - 6:04 AM -------------------- Group buy to replicate Narrow E series transaxle parts
http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...p;#entry1107514 |
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() Joined Apr 20, '06 Currently Offline Reputation: 0 (0%) ![]() |
uhh ya i totally agree edophus. The integra type r is a track ready car straight out of the factory. those celica's are not. thanks for sharing those vids Shigexile. Ok guys finally found a vid of a SS-III vs integra type r vs mr2 g-limited with beams vs rivals at the track. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffcx6H5OASc a little disappointing at first, but ill explain later doing some research.... I cant watch that here at work, but i'm guessing the integra wins right? again it really comes down to the fact that both the ss3 and mr2 with beams are well over 100kg heavier than the integra, niether toyota make any attempt at weight saving, where an integra uses no sound proofing, and lightweight glass, very often no aircon, the toyota's come fully loaded wtih air con, tons of soundproofing etc, have non track biased suspension and similar sized brakes that have more weight to deal with. Deal with those things, or type-r your toyota and its a different story ![]() actually just watched that now, i'm surprised by how little difference there is between the integra and the ss3 given the integra has at least a 110kg weight advantage! so just imagine what happens if you start removing weight from the celica, the integra has already lost most of the weight it can from the factory. This post has been edited by Edophus: Aug 17, 2009 - 11:33 AM |
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Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Dec 8, '03 From Lancaster CA Currently Offline Reputation: 6 (100%) ![]() |
well i just looked at my only NA dyno sheet and it appears that there is a small dip in TQ at 5000 but HP is still climbing.
![]() -------------------- 2001 Celica GT-S Turbo
1997 Supra TT 6speed 1997 Celica 3MZ/1MZ swap 1990 Celica All-Trac |
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![]() Enthusiast ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Joined Oct 30, '03 From IL Currently Offline Reputation: 15 (100%) ![]() |
uhh ya i totally agree edophus. The integra type r is a track ready car straight out of the factory. those celica's are not. thanks for sharing those vids Shigexile. Ok guys finally found a vid of a SS-III vs integra type r vs mr2 g-limited with beams vs rivals at the track. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffcx6H5OASc a little disappointing at first, but ill explain later doing some research.... oh nice find! A translation that they were saying thats important is that Tsuchiya driving the mr2 says that "the dc2 is engineered for track racing (power curve and gear ratio) while toyota is engineered for the sporty road vehicle" and what Edophus was saying about weight has a lot to do with the results as well. -------------------- PROJECT 6TH GEN
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Enthusiast ![]() Joined Aug 13, '07 From Arizona Currently Offline Reputation: 1 (100%) ![]() |
Can you swap over the black top beams in to the celica? I know people will say if you have $$ everything is possible. Im asking if its a ton of work because I think a 6spd black top rwd beams would be awesome. Theres one on youtube that said it has 600bhp idk not sure if its true but i know they can hold turbo pretty well. Theres one w/ a 66 garrett or sumin I believe sorry Idk much about turbos. I just wanted to know if its a direct swap from the Altezza to the celica or if theres a lot more custom fabrication taking place cause about 4k for the 6spd tranny engine and front and rear assembly it sounds like a deal to me. Ill keep researching to see how to manage this.
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