6G Celicas Forums

To buy or not to buy, that is the question.
Imagine yourself in the year 2010, credit cards are paid off and ability to pay $600/mo into car payments. Imagine yourself having to choose between 3 car brands: Toyota, Subaru and Mitsubishi.
Cars up for consideration: GT-4 Celica, Subaru WRX STI and Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution.

GT-4 Celica
1994-1995 approximate mileage 60,000 miles approximate cost $10,000 USD
Pro: Sentimental Value
Con: Average lifespan of a car is about 20 years and vehicle is already 15-16 years old; being pulled over all the time

Subaru WRX STI
2005-2007 approximate mileage 30,000-60,000 miles approximate cost $20,000 USD
Pro: 4 door sedan on steroids
Con: Thousands on the street
2008-2010 approximate mileage 0-20,000 miles approximate cost $25,000 USD
Pro: 5 door models could be used to transport large® objects when necessary
Con: Higher Purchase Cost

Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution
2003-2005 approximate mileage 50,000-70,000 miles approximate cost $20,000 USD
Pro: 4 door sedan on steroids
Con: Thousands on the street
2005-2007 approximate mileage 30,000-50,000 miles approximate cost $25,000 USD
Pro: 4 door sedan on steroids
Con: Thousands on the street

2008-2010 approximate mileage 0-20,000 miles approximate cost $25,000 USD
Pro: 4 door sedan on steroids
Con: High(er) Insurance Rates
So question is: to buy or not to buy?
I know I know… but GT-4 is not legal in the states and yada yada. Let’s close our eyes on legal issues for a second. After all taking a risk is part of the game.
I am window shopping early; obviously it would be silly to walk around with a big check for $25,000 and expect to make a right decision when the time comes. Having Toyota in my DNA, I think it is very hard, mentally, to get away from having one. After all myself and Toyota has been “married” since 1998. Divorce is certainly an option but since Supra was the last performance model and celica was the last appealing model, I doubt that I have anything to look forward to with exception of FT-86 model which is nice but not that nice. So looking back in time I spent nearly 10 years of my life dreaming about GT-4.. so I got myself the closest thing (engine swap) but having been surrounded by AWD Subaru and Evolution cars.. I feel that I don’t quite fit in. Then of course GT-4 has made itself available, at least to our Northern neighbors and getting one to Florida became that much easier. Legal aspects aside… I could be driving one here in the states, legally or not come February. But then vehicle age and limitations have to be considered. Even with lower mileage car is already 15 years old and it is a 2 door bundle of joy that will probably get pulled over every other day. Of course I could spend a little more cash and get myself an evo or a sti and have no legal issues at all, I could have a sedan or a 5 door and probably higher insurance but I would be driving either car until at least 2025-2030. Those cars, of course have advanced AWD system with upgraded electronics and yada yada but the curves are gone, rarity is missing and aside from practical use of having 4 or 5 doors and lasting a whole 10 or so years longer than a GT-4 would… they are not that special. Of course 2008+ models look different from previous models but that is kind of expected. In either case purchase of those would be expected come Summer.
What would you do?

Wow, I thought I put a lot of thought into these things. For me though, I am all about Toyota, and I dunno... Technology is something to consider. I am actually looking forward to this FT-86 and put future plans of owning a MKIV Supra aside for this new car. It doesn't really seem like anything we say though, will change your mind when the time comes and for such a big choice, whatever you go with after making such a thread, keep in mind you are going to get some high fives and some thumbs down. If Toyota is in your blood, then go with what your heart tells you. I would hate to daily drive a real or fully converted GT4 with risk of it getting totaled by a drunk driver or just some idiot driver, so that is something to consider. Meaning, Insurance. For me, I still plan on converting my car and it will be done one day. So a simple MR2 Turbo I will be picking up this year so I stay within my familiar Toyota Realm and I don't daily drive a project that could be destroyed by an idiot on the road.

I said that so you can consider it to be an important factor if you are thinking about just bringing a GT4 into the states. Honestly, I have been hearing nothing but good things from Subaru lately on the performance aspect, in ways that put the Evo down.

Between Mitsubishi and Subaru there is no right answer, unfortunately. Just as soon as one car falls into a category of "must have" there is also another category called "BUT".

For example STI is faster off the line BUT Evo takes corners like its on rails.
Evo design is very functional BUT STI interior is far superior.

Performance wise they are off by 0.01 Second on 0-60 line with evo being better in handling (Right models of course)

True, but Mitsubishi has poorer quality regarding transfer case, so I hear... I know with gsx that seems to be the case all the time. Plus that issue with the dude who broke his pedal because it was made out of 100% plastic. I never really heard about Subaru's being more cheaper in quality, however to me it would make more sense if they did or were, considering I see not too many of their vehicles other than the STI on the market... Unlike back in the 90's when I seen others available. Seems like they only make 1 car these days in the states.

This post has been edited by Random_Stranger: Oct 31, 2009 - 8:38 PM

If you can find a way to get one, GT-4. You have cash in hand now and obviously a way to get one, and it still falls into your 20-year-max requirement, although I think it can last much longer. Toyota builds well, and I see no reason why a GT-4 can't be kept until it's 40 years old. You can get an Evo or STi in five years if you want, BUT then (according to yourself), a GT-4 won't be feasible anymore. Take the opportunity now.

If now was 2003 then I would do so in a heart beat. Come this February I will be 27 and looking to start a family. While driving a 2 seater will not be so bad it does have its disadvantages. For example my family routinely spends $300-$1000 on a car rental only because they come (even when traveling light) with luggage and there are 4 of them. Then there are plenty of times when there is like 5 of my buddies going out somewhere and we are forced to either cram into 2 coupes or end up going somewhere really close. Forget about long distance traveling with more than 2. So you can certainly see the potential benefit of owning a sedan.

You have also mentioned a potential 40 year life span for a toyota. True but one must also consider maintenance cost of older vehicles. A $250 here, a $300 there and it can quickly add up to costing you about 1000 green ones every year. Multiply that over a number of years plus cost of renting a vehicle while yours is in the shop and over 20 years your car becomes quite a hassle. That is also true for newer vehicles but you can usually squeeze out 15 years out of them before major repairs.

I see your point, but the thing is that you want a GT-4. By your reasoning (20 years max), you only have a few years left to get one. So get one while you can...screw the family. It's your car. Tell them to bring their own mode of transportation.

But seriously, you can get an Evo/STi anytime. But a GT-4...that's unique.

In 2007 I had a long talk with my boss on where and how to invest my 401K. While he went ahead and dumped most of his 401 fund into high risk stocks and was up by 40 or so percent, I chose to take a safer route and dump every penny into bonds. So stock market crashed and he lost 80 percent of his 401K while I lost about 10 percent give or take. I had a 6th sense tell me right then and there not to listen to his advice and it turned out to be a good hunch. $10K is a large investment which can make me very happy or very disappointed. Provided I have a few months left until then... I spent the last 2 months being tormented by the thought of "what if". Buying a GT-4 in canada is not like running down the street and physically looking at it, giving it to mechanic for thorough review and have some sort of lemon law backing it up. Buying a GT-4 in canada is exactly like buying a cat in a bag. A 1 shot deal that may go either very sweet or very sour. Obviously I hope for the best but since there is no legal way of registering a gt-4 here, my only option is (and I don't want to give any wrong ideas to people) to bring the car here, do a switcharoo and drive it as a car that was bought and registered here legally and have that car parked/garaged/forever forgotten but never sent to a junk yard. There is really no other way to do this unless we can somehow mysteriously make next year a 2029, send me back to my 20's and rewind my life for the next 10 years. $10K is a large gamble which would be a lot easier to execute if canadian brokers would start importing not just from japan but from left hand drive countries in europe that do have lhd celicas.
Driving a rhd car in the states is like wearing a green hat in a orange field. You will stand out and if a cop is having a really bad day and your celica vins were swapped and they found out... well you know where I am going with this. On the contrary you could be driving a lhd model with absolutely no modifications and nobody would ever know.

Tough choices eh

This post has been edited by yarik83: Nov 1, 2009 - 12:37 AM

I didn't read the whole message, but start a family and here you are looking for a sporty vehicle? Why? So you could turn around and sell it because you are trying to start a family? Come on man.

Some people are forced to sell their sporty car because they need to buy a house and that often permanently scrubs their plans of ever owning a sports car for the next 18 years. I already own a home and furniture so that rules out a need to sell the car. A sedan could easily function as a family car. Put car seats in the back and then booster seats as kids are growing up. So a sports sedan could easily answer 2 basic needs of functionality and sportiness.

But then of course driving a GT4 will make me a happy camper and for total cost of a evo or sti I could probably make that gt4 a 600hp beast that it should be.

Very true, however there is that issue if you are going to try to drive this thing on the street, vs having it as only a track car. I mean you wreck a GT4, how is it going to be insured if it is "illegal" due to registration? Unless you have another car and plan on using the GT4 just for track or something.

If i got my hands on a gt-4 I would be driving it every single day mate. I have not been to the track for at least 6 years and I do not plan to return there any time soon.

Edit:
The only way to drive a gt-4 here is to drive it illegally with all other things being illegal as well. skip us customs, registration and yada yada the only way one could drive a gt-4 here is to either bring one here in pieces and register it as kit car or swapping vins with same color us registered celica (hatchback) that would be permanently parked to never be driven for as long as gt-4 is driving in its place. Aside from steering wheel on the wrong side of the car not one person in usa would be able to tell you a difference between a hatchback us celica and a gt4 from overseas. But then it would be like walking on a razor blade with rattle snakes on one side and hungry alligators on the other.

This post has been edited by yarik83: Nov 1, 2009 - 3:55 PM

Good point. I was wondering why nobody ever mentioned registering it as a Kit Car, when that seems perfectly legal in any state. Or even how some states allow the title of "Replica" car.

I got a letter from one of brokers here in usa with unconfirmed report that national highway traffic safety administration has issued an order to crack down on all drivers who are driving kit cars that do not fall into category of street legal kit cars. He did not elaborate but from what I could research a kit car is allowed for as long as car was produced in usa at some point in time. Example being shelby cars. If car is not at least 25 years old then it must go through legal channels in which they (even without crashtesting) can approve the car under temporary exemption (ie importation for limited amount of time for car show/car race). But then of course if you have enough money you can be driving a gt4 celica tomorrow. I got enough feedback from brokers to conclude that if I had 30 grand I could be driving car of my dreams legally.

On the flip side of the coin bringing a gt-4 to usa illegally would cost less than or equal to $10K.

There have been a few Skylines impounded in California that were registered as kit cars, I'll see if I can find the article it was in. I would definitely consider the risk of losing your car.

One other thing I would consider against the GT4 is maintenance. Since it's not a USDM car, you can't exactly just go to Autozone and get parts for it (I know we have the 3sgte in the MR2, but everything else on the car is different). Most Toyota dealers won't get parts for it, and no techs will really know what to do with some of it, so you'll be ordering your own parts overseas and doing your own wrenching.

All in all, I'd say go STi. The GT4 is a hot car, and we all love the Celica, but seriously, it's a 16 year old car that you'd have to drive illegally. Go drive an STi and an Evo, you'll be THRILLED to own either one. With some easy mods you can give either one some serious power, and even though they are "everywhere" that's a good thing: lots of aftermarket support, local clubs and support, etc.

I am somewhat split with evo and sti. I'd say 60/40. Every time I look at the pictures (and yes I actually printed out photos of each model in different colors and posted it all over my house) I am drawn to the grrr factor that evo brings but then I remember the sweet sound that sti makes and its back to the drawing board. He he he.

You do have a very valid point about maintenance and that is one of the other things that I could close my eyes on but like you said a 16 year old car might need more than just tlc.

Evo/STi is more of a preference thing. The Evo is definitely mean, I would definitely recommend going with an Evo MR if you can find one. The STi is a little more refined, has a great sound to it, and with a downpipe/catback system and a reflash you can push out a bunch more power and it will sound awesome. I've driven both, and owned a WRX, you would be happy with either one.

Evo/Sti Review Edumunds

After watching probably close to a hundred different evo videos I would have to say that edmunds does not do it justice.. not even to sti. They are being critical and rightly so. They highlight things that might need attention and out of the blue they conclude their analysis with something that was not shown in the video.

never less things are changing for both mitsubishi and subaru. Both kinda sorta pulled out from the rally sport although their vehicles are still used by privately held teams. As much as I like subaru I just cant agree with the fact that they had to make a car that looks like a 5 door ford focus. But then evo looks a little more delicate than subaru so driving it offroad would probably require a little extra care because of front bumper being so low.

On a bright side of things, time is moving and before you know it all of the things that are holding me up right now will be resolved. I do appreciate all the feedback. After all being a member of this community comes with great people who may point out things to me that I may have overlooked on my own.

The Evo does seem to be set up more for street use from the factory. I can tell you if you're interested in off-road, go with the Subaru. When I had mine it was just a matter of switching out wheel/tire sets. 18's with summer tires for the street, and mud/snows on the stock wheels. That thing tore it up off road.