6G Celicas Forums

808 has spoken, do all 4 and the best material possible

if you need some $$ to get this going hit me up. I was planning on making silicone molds on my off time but never got around to. i was gonna sell my clear lens' too but somehow i lost them I did find them again but didnt log in here for a long time

im also doin silicone molds for the 77 cuz parts are soo damn hard to get

Alright so I had a meeting with the owner of a major injection molding outfit here in Calgary this afternoon. Very smart guy, and very professional. I learned a lot in the half hour I was there.

The company that I talked to creates headlight lenses for GM using the same method! I was assured that the final product is lighter than glass; more durable, and OEM quality. No more rock chips in the lenses! Lightweight substitute! OEM quality & fitment!! Its too good to be true!

Unfortunately, it wasn't what I wanted to learn. I was unaware of the entire process needed for this little project of mine... turns out theres quite a bit of work to be done, and a lot of money to be invested in it.

But wait... it gets better!

The cost...

First; we need a CAD (digital) version of the lenses (~$1500CDN - not bad).
Once the CAD version has been created, test fitted, etc, then we need to machine the mold.

Now - we discussed mold types for the majority of my time there; the molds are all based on tonnage. The bigger the mold (if I wanted to make a mold of all 4 lenses at once) the more steel I would need to withstand roughly 900,000lbs of force for the injection... so obviously that means more $$$. To have a mold machined to handle all 4 at once would cost upwards of $80-100K. Yes, thats ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS worth of steel...

In the end, we came up with a casting that we could make that would have individual, swappable cores for each of the lenses, saving a lot of money in the mold making process.

We could have created the mold out of Alluminum for less $$$, but the final product would not be the 'crystal clear' that we all crave, so I put the kaibosh on that idea right away. Steel needs to be used because it can be machined so there are no imperfections in the final product; Crystal Clear & OEM quality.

To have this mold (AKA a "Tool") developed or "machined" would cost roughly around $50-$60k (thats THOUSAND).

It would cost roughly $10 in materials to cast a complete headlight set. (Sooo cheap, and for PERFECTION!)

So lets crunch these numbers together, just you & me .

Just for this example; I'll use the numbers from the polls.

I have 17 people interested in the Polycarbonate Injection version. Great!

Worst case scenario; to draft up the CAD version of the headlight lenses & create the Steel Tool required is going to cost $61,500CDN.

So for 17 runs of complete sets (all 4 lenses); the materials would cost $170CDN (easy math); now we're looking at an initial cost of $61,670CDN to get rolling. ( see where I'm going with this...?)

Selling a complete set at $310CDN (~$300USD, not including shipping); I would need to sell at LEAST 200 units to break even on this project.

Thats an enormous risk for me to take with only 17 people interested...

Unless those interested 17 are willing to pay $3700 for these lenses (which is a rhetorical joke, please do not flame me )...

With the market the way it is, I'm sure I could break even after a few months of selling them here, there & eBay. But the unfortunate factor is, I have to come up with the money before they will let me take the final product home to sell...

He said that it takes roughly 8-10wks to have the Steel Tool developed, then there may or may not be at least a 2 wk waiting period for orders (ie. there might be a line up of OTHER companies needing injections done), HOWEVER; they can crank out over 500 complete sets a day.


SUMMARY: Injection Molding is the cats-meow when it comes to replicating our lenses to OEM specs and standards; but the cost to get started is insane.

Options:
- They have specialized Leasing companies that will help me lease the "Tool" @ 7-8% interest rate - which doesn't matter because paying it off won't take much once the product is being developed.

- Waiting until I have 200 orders filled with money in my hand, and then starting the project. It would take a lot of trust for this community to do something like that, and I don't expect it to happen at all. Who knows how long it would take to get the money together this way, and even if I did; it would take ~5 months for everyone to get their product... at first anyways. Any additional runs after this would take less time.

- Thermoforming: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermoforming

- Acrylic Pouring: Essentially is just pouring a liquid hardening acrylic into a cast/mold and letting it set. I've been told they've been getting better at this, so there are little to no flaws in the final product.


Here's more information regarding Injection Molding: WIKI - Injection Molding


Let me know what you guys think!
Personally; I think it might be feasible. Like I said it shouldn't be hard to sell that many units, there just needs to be enough interest generated in order for me to be comfortable proceeding with the project. I'm obviously not going to invest ~$62,000 in something I don't believe I will break even on. I'm sure you all understand.

... and on that note; can anyone spot me a $100k note? Lolz

This post has been edited by KAOS: Oct 26, 2010 - 6:29 PM

holy ****!!
Didnt another member make them before? for relatively cheap? how did he make them?

Might as well go out and get OE JDM projectors instead. Because even if we end up getting these lenses, we would still have to retro-fit our own choice of projectors and HID. Some might not look as clean as professional done up retrofits.

These were designed for those in the community who were looking to do the retrofit already. Obviously you wouldn't be able to use clear lenses with the OEM Halogen bulbs. With the lack of light refraction in the clear lenses the visibility with halogens would be crap. IIRC, the halogens would melt through the plastic lenses anyways. (maybe not the injection molded ones, but why risk it?)

I know this^

I'm just saying that its obvious that the people wanting the lenses already have plans to do the retrofit, but when it comes down to pricing a nice set of used projectors and hids would cost around 300, and then plus these lenses? Plus the time to do your own retrofitting.

Might as well go OE, It'll more than likely look cleaner.

But for those of us who would like to have a customized retrofit, these lenses would be a no-brainer. I'd rather spend $500-600 on an entire retrofit project that I did myself, take pride in my work, and still be unique with the look of OEM, than spend ~$1000 for OEM projectors.

... mind you I do know a few of us who have been lucky getting the entire set for $500ish, but lets be honest, how often does that happen?

Either way, the lenses aren't for sale right now, and that price was just a rough estimate using the numbers given.

Obviously the more I make the better the price is going to be... but how could I ever get 300+ confirmed units? LoL.

I wouldn't spend that kind of money on OEM if I didn't have to. Yeah they would look good, but who's to say that someones custom retrofit wouldn't look BETTER/CLEANER...?

Anyways, I'll do some more research into the Thermoforming, and Pouring methods with different companies and get back to you guys. I haven't given up yet.