6G Celicas Forums

Agreed on all of this - especially about the S2K, there's a reason it's called the torqueless wonder.

I'm excited to see how well this engine does in the FT and if Toyota will look into placing it (or reworked/detuned versions) into other cars in the lineup.

i like the sound of everything but i would've liked toyota to build an engine for this car

x2.

Its toyota half assed attempt at releasing a sport coupe. Not saying that the boxer engine isn't great cause we all know it is but c'mon now. Toyota/Yamaha have such great engine engineering.

well look at toyota's track record over the past 10 years. What have they been specializing in? Appliances, that's what. Zero excitement, A to B cars that get the job done and do so reliably. They checked their performance division at the gate years ago. COULD they build a new performance 4/6 cylinder for this? absolutely, but at what cost?

By using the Subaru engine, they can fully share in manufacturing costs. The boxer format sits lower in the car thus lowing its center of gravity, improving handling. The decision was likely a calculated decision to balance cost, time, and performance, not just because they were lazy and didn't feel like making a new engine for this. This was all in an effort to keep the sticker price in their target range of <$25K and get this car into your hands.

As a bonus, they get to borrow a little from Subaru's WRC work and performance, Also allowing instant access to STi aftermarket support.

So in short, its a better performance platform.

EDIT: wow, that came off as harsh. I'll leave it, but my intent was that toyota left the performance game years ago while subaru is still there. toyota is just using subaru's expertise.

This post has been edited by jimmykay: Jul 21, 2011 - 10:10 AM

And we all benefit from this decision. By sharing the manufacturing cost it is allowing them to sell this car at a price point that they wouldn't be able to meet otherwise.


Plus TONS of aftermarket support for the EJ20 platform - swap potential from any other Subaru... Like a 3.0 H6 swap..... mmmmm

Considering we're on a forum dedicated to a car whose performance engines were built by Yamaha, I don't really mind if someone else builds the engine as long as Toyota makes sure it's up to its quality and reputation -- as opposed to the ATS plastic gas pedals, which were only to Toyota's specifications but not its reputation.

And that is the exact reason I will never drive a Honda. That seems to be how all of their "performance" cars are. I am honestly looking forward to the 86. I don't really care for the sound of boxer engines (I have heard way too many and thought a helicopter was landing on top of a parking garage) but it will be nice to have something that makes some power and is rwd.

To all of the morons/haters talking about Honda motors and torque... it's a 2 liter n/a engine. What do you expect? Try an name one gas powered 2 liter n/a motor that makes torque and comparable HP.

To all of the people who immediately think 2JZ/turbo/6 cylinder/etc... be realistic. Their target price is probably gonna be around 20-25K... that's not the price range for a high powered/performance RWD sports car... at least not for any japanese car.

IMO... I think this thing will make 240 hp tops. Even with toyota's direct injection... without some sort of valve lift technology, it's not gonna make significantly more than 120 hp/per liter. The size of the car is slightly larger than an S2000... the weight might be slightly less cause it's not a roadster... so performance will be similar to the S2000. For everyone that is dreaming for the next supra... the history of this car (AE86) was never about high power... but rather about refined performance. You are looking at the wrong car if you have any of those assumptions. For AE86 enthusiasts and track whores like myself (former)... this is pretty much exactly what we expected. A small, light, tossable car with decent grunt. It's all about the driving experience as opposed to raw power. If you really want raw power on the Cheap... go buy a mustang GT... 400+hp for under 30K. In the mean time... just be happy toyota hasn't forgotten about the enthusiast crowd...

Kwanza,

I'm not hating on the S2K - in fact exactly the opposite - I've wanted one for some time now and it was on the list with the FT-86 as a possible new car. The point of my post was that one of the things that's well-documented is that it makes little torque precisely because it is such a high HP per liter 2.0 engine. S2000's are quick and nimble cars but not really known for throwing down serious 0-60 times or burnouts as far as I know. That was my point.

Also, thanks for your perspective on things...you've always been one of the most knowledgeable drivers on this board.

its still a toyota with a subaru heart

And your point is?

Its a FHI car with a FHI engine.

(Fuji Heavy Industries for those not in the know)

I particularly dislike subaru owners down here as they believe that their boxer engine is the best thing since sliced bread and that they are the meanest fastest thing on the planet but its just because its the cheapest turbo 4x4 thats faster than a golf cart down here.

I am not happy with the fact that toyotas idea of a joint venture car is designing the cup holders while the other team takes the glory. If they want to play the eco friendly carebear team that's their choice, no guts no glory.

Toyota 2011 = boring

the LFA is about the only interesting thing they have made...

It's better than a Scion tC.

Meh. I saw pics of this at the Toyota showroomadn thought to myself if they put a decent engine in that, it could be brilliant. But alas, seems like it will be tame.

mentality that both subaru's wrx and honda owners are of the same resemblance. I mean most young straight out of high school or still in high school kids buy civic/integra or subaru. So I understand why your saying that neon90424

Ya all you guys say, well atleast toyota is selling a sports car now. I feel as if toyota is selling out just to bring in some revenue. Sorry I'm just a die hard toyota Fan is all. what can I say...

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Jul 23, 2011 - 7:20 PM

I don't think Toyota is concerned about additional revenue. They make more money than all of the other auto makers. I think the CEO realized they had steered away from what he wants the company to be, and he is correcting that. Who cares what company the motor is from? Most people that swap cars use motors from another auto maker anyways.

I'm pretty sure that although this engine is Subaru boxer based it has been overhauled by Toyota and Yamaha to the point were it's not your standard FHI 2.0 FB/EJ20. At worst, it's 25% Toyota/Yamaha engineered and at best, 75% - either way Toyota will finally have a car on the market that raises pulses even if the engine powering it isn't an inline 4 or 6.

It's in our best interest for Toyota to do whatever will make this a viable alternative to the crop of 2 door FWD coupes on the market and a success - it could be the catalyst for a new all Toyota-sourced sports car line-up. If we want new Supras and Celicas we should want this car to succeed.

it will succeed. of course it could be similar to the types of Civic (especially the old ones) - a cult car that is still driven on timeattacks and other contests. cheap, light, reliable, massively produced. of course during the years it will be spoiled and considered a ricer car (we already see the FT86 effed up in photoshop the WRONG way). but it will make Toyota sell very good. and while all civics dominated the FWD sportsline, FT86 will definitely take over the RWDs. Its a constructor car with a good base for those that dont have the guts or money to do a full build. It will be the top aftermarket supported car, since we dont see any tunable cars on the market today. its basically a dream for our generation. probably it will have the same future as MR2 - lots of complete bodykits (like lambo/ferrari/other replicas) since the base is very compact.
and yes, as you said, the zillion FT86 sales SHOULD revive the sportscar lineups probably including the GT-FOUR. long live TOYOTA!!
FT86 is like an android cellphone - lots of potential, great specs, easy for regular user, extremely customizable for advanced users except for the bugs and production errors and recalls, lets hope there are none.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHtQDZOQJV0...player_embedded

Nothing wrong with a boxer engine. This'll be a small, 6spd, RWD rocket that's going to take the mid-range sports car market by storm. Who cares if it has a Scoob engine in it, is it really that bad? I don't think so. Lotus Elise/Exige uses a Toyota engine, McLaren F1 used a BMW engine, there's plenty other examples, what's so wrong with the FT-86/FR-S using a Subaru engine? Like Brian (Keiri) said, it'll definitely have Toyota and Yamaha's magical inputs, so why are people complaining? This will be the best sports car Toyota has had since the GT-Four (Not counting the Supra, it seems a little too OP for comparison to the FT-86/FR-S).

This post has been edited by HectortheRican: Jul 26, 2011 - 11:52 AM