6G Celicas Forums

I was talking to Trace a while back and we considered that perhaps the engine isn't reaching proper operating temperatures, so the ECU is still adding warmup enrichment despite the fact that the motor has warmed up. The needle shows that the motor is warm enough, so that theory is coming up behind faulty VVT and wiring/electrical issues. It should be noted that at the time, Brigette told me that the motor takes a while to warm up. She described it to me but I disregarded it as a trait of the motor since it didn't take very much longer than the old 5S did to warm up. This morning was the coldest we've had since the swap, 28*. Apparently when she was driving home this morning, the needle would get just above the first line then cool back down. Thermostat problem... Awesome. It's a brand new thermostat. 5,000 miles and I get to change it again tomorrow. I bought a thermostat from NAPA to put in the BEAMS but today I went ahead and ordered a new OEM thermostat from Toyota. Also went ahead and ordered a brand new TPS, though I've checked the voltage of my TPS and it's all good but oh well, I'll replace it anyway. I also have an OEM replacement Koyo aluminum radiator that could be cooling TOO well, but again, this morning's issue lies in the thermostat so I'll replace that and check out the wiring for the CTS (finally) tomorrow.

Mostly, I'm just replacing the thermostat with an OEM thermostat and looking at wires again tomorrow.

do you hace access to a wideband? watching & knowing the exact AFRs will help TREMENDOUSLY. maybe its actually leaning out? i had a screwy O2 senor and it caused me to feel as if the engine was bogging down at <3500 rpms, exhuast had a different tone and all. it was running leaner than 18:1. then above 3500 it'd go into openloop and richen back up to 12.5:1 or so and power would be back to normal. it was VERY hard to get into openloop under that rpm too.

I would let you borrow my AEM to help diag your issue.

I do not have a wideband. It would be extremely helpful if I did but I haven't wanted to spend the money. I know my O2 sensor is ruled out but who knows what other sensor/wire could be at fault.

PM me ur address & I'll ship u the AEM. It'll be awhile before I go stand alone & need it. It will thread into most O2 bungs(idk if the stock O2 is threaded into that plate, though...)

We put the Greytop thermostat in today. It wasn't really a cold day but the BEAMS still seemed to warm up quicker than it did with the NAPA thermostat. The NAPA t stat was visually in good shape, as you would expect from a t stat with only 5,000 miles of use. Since we didn't really feel like we made any progress, we changed more light bulbs!



We just pulled out the regular 194's and put white LED's in the sidemarkers to make them a little brighter and to have them match the HID's better. It was decently annoying to have a very bright white HID with a pale yellow sidemarker next to it. Anyway, moving on...

you can do the "boil test" on that old tstat.

if you have a cooking thermometer, see if it starts opening @ 170-175* and fully open by 185.

^^^ The NAPA thermostat is sitting in a box on a shelf now, though I can't figure out why I'm keeping it. My Greytop thermostat seems to be working just fine and even if it isn't, I'll have a brand new OEM thermostat and TPS here Wednesday.

However, it should be noted that my light bulbs are still working awesome. They never dim for any reason. Unlike my BEAMS.

I take that back... One of the OEM HID's in my Lexus burned out Friday night. I can already feel the impending damage to my bank account. OEM Osram HID's aren't cheap.

I'm lining up potential ECU's to test soon. I know of 3 right now that I can test to see if mine is faulty. However, it's looking like next weekend will involve some fun with a wiring harness, removing it from the motor while it's still on the bay and taking it completely apart. I might even extend it to fit the factory hole in the firewall. I think that might be getting too fancy though.

Edit: some information that Turnip gave me, something else to try this weekend.



There are three articles he sent me but there's no need to quote every interesting sentence. I only posted that quote as a reference for anybody who might want to test their VVT solenoid. That test can be done in or out of the car.

This post has been edited by richee3: Nov 13, 2011 - 10:53 PM

I got Stephen's wideband installed, and here are some numbers.

TPS Unplugged:
Startup idle- cold: 13.5-14
Warm- ~15

Cruising- ~ 12.5-13

Acceleration- WOT from first gear- the wideband shows 10, but I don't think it can read anything richer than 10:1.
Regular acceleration- 15-16 below 3,200 rpm but as soon as I hit the magical 3,200 rpm point where the car always seems to run better, the AFR immediately drops to ~12.

Also, with the TPS unplugged, the bogging went away.

TPS Plugged In:
Idle: 13

Cruising: anywhere from 10.5-11 to 13.

Acceleration: 13-14
WOT- Below 11.
Bogging- >17, beyond what Stephen's wideband can read.

With the TPS plugged in, the readings are all over the place. It's diffucult to get a steady reading.

I still have the Walbro 255 in the tank, I need to pull that out and reinstall my OEM fuel pump. Hopefully that will lean out some of my AFR's. I know the BEAMS naturally runs a little rich, but I don't think it's supposed to run quite this rich.

I have figured out that unplugging the TPS causes the car to run a little more rich. Since the bogging is caused by ungodly lean conditions, unplugging the TPS causes the ECU to add more fuel to be safe and therefore, it has enough fuel to prevent the bogging.

I was bewildered before about what was wrong. Now that I have some quick AFR's, I'm even more confused. As a general rule, it runs rich. But it also leans out a LOT if I stab at the throttle below 3,200 RPM. So... No idea where to go from here. Time to get together with my best friend Google and see what I can find out.

This post has been edited by richee3: Nov 19, 2011 - 3:55 PM

A misfire will show a "lean" condition, so maaybe ypu still have some misfires?

I've considered the possibility of the timing being off and all 4 cylinders missing. I was planning on testing the VVT this weekend, but... Not happening. Thank you, deer season and drunken old men in my yard.

Get drunk with em! haha. Then you'll say "**** that car."

my celica idled 6 hours last night with a projector playing movies out the back up on a warehouse wall.
Beer was involved. BUT the image was ~2 stories tall so.. Epic.

I just reread you AFRs, and it seems you might have narrowed down the issue... The AFRs are perfect (for a stock tune) when the TPS is unplugged...

The wideband can read 10:1 to 18:1. when its out of that it shows "---"

Interesting for the AFR to be perfect for an unplugged TPS... Those readings were very easy to get, very consistent. When I plugged it in, the readings went everywhere. I keep editing my post, trying to keep a good average. I know my brand new TPS is good, so that leaves TPS wiring to check out.

I've seen the wideband display "---" a few times. Mostly when I let off of the gas and coast in gear, but also when it starts bogging, and occasionally when I shift. I've also seen 10.0 when I floored it from first gear, but I assumed I was just outside what the wideband can display. Puretone from the BEAMS Owners Group has told me he often sees AFR's of 8.5 or 9:1 when he goes WOT. Then again, his car runs right. Mine is probably richer than that.

I just pulled the error codes. Actually got some this time. That's always a good sign. I got codes 21, 25, and 41. So a code for the O2 sensor, lean AFR, and TPS sensor. I already knew that though. I've been driving around with the TPS unplugged, so that covers that. Since I have the wideband in right now, so no O2 sensor at all and thanks to the wideband, I already knew the motor ran lean. Hooray for not finding out anything new...

This post has been edited by richee3: Nov 19, 2011 - 8:45 PM

^ Yes actually, you can find out something new. Drive again with the TPS in, pull the codes, and if there is still one you can actually eliminate the sensor as the issue, it'd be in the wiring.

It's a brand new sensor, just installed it yesterday morning. The code was thrown because I drove around with it unplugged. I just got excited to do the paperclip trick and get back in the car to catch the CEL throwing codes. I thought I was going to find something new, but it just threw codes I already knew about. I still find it interesting that I don't have any other codes. I only work 3 days this week, so I'm doing to do my best to test some of the VVT components. Mostly just putting power to the VVT solenoid while the car idles to see what happens.

In other news, idle is now around 14.7-14.9:1.

Here are the VVT-i troubleshooting articles from Turnip if anybody is interested.

VVT-i Article April 2010
VVT-i Article May 2010
VVT-i Article June 2010

This post has been edited by richee3: Nov 20, 2011 - 12:25 PM

Right, I realize it's new. I thought you were expressing concern over the TPS wiring somewhere, now I can't find the post...it was really in regard to that.

Ah, I see what you're saying. I thought you had missed the part where I put a new TPS on. I'll be honest, I was exhausted when I replied to your post. I barely read it. I'll reset the ECU and go for a good drive and try to pull the codes again and see what I come up with. I'm expecting to get the all clear from the ECU though.

I've got a 4 day weekend so I might be brave enough to pull the harness off of the motor and tear it completely apart. I don't expect to find very much though. Honestly, which wire to what sensor would be load, gear, and RPM specific like my bogging? Which wire would cause the motor to run incredibly lean below 3,200 rpm and rich after that point?

Maybe I'm overthinking this. I replaced the fuel filter with a NAPA fuel filter when I did the swap. Maybe my problem is in the fuel filter not flowing properly, or in the fuel line or fuel rail on the BEAMS. I've been tempted the last few weeks to pull the injectors off of my Greytop and get them serviced and put on my Redtop.

Ok, the audio is a little screwed up because of the phone upload, but basically the car was cold as shown by the temp gauge. The foot was to the floor until I hit 60, at which point I held it still.... you'll see the rpms stay up as the car won't shift past 3rd, and then it'll up shift as it warms.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDQMvCJPkmU
That was what I was trying to describe to you when I was talking about the temp things a while back. So if the auto ecu thought it was cold because of a bad wire or something, it might be doing something like this. But without removing the harness we'll never know however unlikely lol. But this is where the idea stemmed from

^^ It's worth testing for sure.

The AFR's are starting to form a trend, though it's still difficult to tell what it's running. At startup, it's usually 14.7-15. Idle after that is everywhere from 12.5 to 15.5, with no real pattern. It idles rough at 15, but fine otherwise. Cruising, it's starting to go back to 12.5-13. WOT, again, depends on RPM. It goes from crazy lean to crazy rich, depending on where I'm at in the rev range.

I put the OEM fuel pump back in and pulled the Walbro 255 out, and I made myself a makeshift OEM airbox until the actual box gets here. It's pretty crude, to say the least. I cut up the old intake pipe and electrical taped it to the USDM airbox. Just for curiosity's sake, nothing more. Started the car up, idle was at 12.2 instead of 14.7 like usual. A 3 minute drive proved that the AFR stayed between 10.5 and 11, so I put the SARD back on. I wasn't intending to leave that makeshift airbox in the car by any means, I was just testing to see what the factory airbox could do for me. I'm quite sure it will have better results than the monstrosity I made.



Just showing off the triple gauge pod on loan from Chris. The air/fuel gauge is on loan from Stephen, and fully functional. The other two gauges are mostly there just to fill holes, but the turbo gauge is actually hooked up. Just measuring how much boost I'm not making

GAWD....

That pod looks amazing.