6G Celicas Forums

It's got an issue now. When I first put the motor in the car, it would start and idle just fine. I've barely changed anything- moved one ground, reconnected a shift cable, and replaced a leaking fuel return line. Replacing the fuel return line from the fuel pressure regulator meant taking the intake manifold off. When I had the intake off but the manifold and throttle body still on, no MAF connected, I wiggled the line and the pressure clip around to see if I could get a better seal. I tried cranking the car over just to see if any fuel would come out. To my surprise, it actually started. No intake, no MAF, just a throttle body and intake manifold. It didn't run very well, and I only let it run like this maybe a minute or so. Then I continued on with replacing the fuel line. When I got to the FPR, I had to loosen it up so I could spin it around and get to the pressure clip on the fuel return line. I put the FPR back where it was, so essentially no change, and tightened it back down. Put everything back together, try to start the car... Issue. It will start but WILL NOT run. It will maybe idle rough for a second or two, then die. Every third or fourth try, the motor will rev to 3-4,000 for a moment, run fine while it's revving that high, then idle and die again. I can also give it gas to keep it at 4k where it will run. I'm at a loss for what could be causing this. It isn't a vac leak. The BEAMS has 3 vac hoses- two for the charcoal canister and one for the FPR. All three are intact. I have confirmed this. The motor acts like it isn't getting any fuel, which it was before. I have to look at what I've changed.

FPR issue? Too tight/not tight enough? Fuel return line shouldn't cause an issue. It isn't leaking. The intake manifold is securely bolted back to the head- no leaks or open gaps. The wiring harness did get in the way at first, but I was able to push it out of the way and get the manifold back on without issue. The few things I've changed don't seem to make sense with this issue. I'll (grudgingly) take the manifold off again tomorrow night and check the FPR but I don't anticipate finding any issue.

Neither ECU makes a difference. No wiring was changed. It's something strictly mechanical. I'm exhausted and not thinking properly at all. I'm sure it's something incredibly small and obvious but I'll have to tackle it tomorrow, after another 14 hour day at work.

I got the car started again tonight and revved it up a few times to keep it running. It was smoking out of the intake side of the motor, though I can't determine where from. When I revved it, black smoke shout out from the exhaust. Before any of this, I took the intake manifold off. There was some very gritty oil in the runners and liquid oil on the flange. No idea where it came from, as the throttle body is clean. Anyway, the picture will tell all..





That's my garage door, a full 3 feet behind the car, and that's only what actually made it to the garage door. Don't forget how much was blowing straight out of the header. I could only stand to stay in my garage a few minutes after that, as the smoke was too bad and I couldn't breathe or see. I've got the garage wide open to ventilate at the moment. It should be noted that the new motor crackles quite a bit and backfires from time to time. I originally assumed this was from the leaking exhaust. Could be a valve issue, could be a piston ring issue... who knows.

All I know is the old motor was running like a champ, apart from flooring it in 4th or 5th gear from a low RPM. And when I had the m/t ECU plugged it, it pulled harder than I remember a 5S pulling and didn't bog once. So I've got a 5 day break starting tomorrow night and I've made the executive decision- out with the new, in with the old. I'll swap a handful of things over, of course. VVT controller, LSD tranny, header heat shield, and MAYBE the wiring harness. The harness on the new BEAMS has seen better days. It's not cut, just full of brittle, fatigued wires. I might just delete the auto trans wires and plugs from my old harness, or I might just leave everything alone and get it back in as quick as possible.

Moar empty engine bay and BEAMS on an engine hoist pictures coming next week!

(As if this thread doesn't already have enough of those.)

thats a lot of bad luck, hope you can solve it quick

Lol I'm glad I'm not the only one who has noticed how bad my luck has been so far.

The old BEAMS could very well have been at 100% with the new m/t ECU. It still felt to me like it had a slight issue, but I think that's because I was expecting it to have an issue. Power was well above what it was with the old ECU. And to be honest, this VVT controller is over 10 years old. It's very possible that my test proved that it's junk, but it's also very possible that Toyota changed to a different style of VVT controller between 1997 when the BEAMS was released and 2010 when that article was released. It's entirely possible that my test results are void because I did a test for a completely different style of controller. (Theoretically, it's the same result- apply power to the OCV, it rotates one way or the other, which changes oil flow to the controller and changes timing.) But it's possible that my test will not affect the BEAMS. Nonetheless, I'm fully aware of the old motor and it's issues, but the new motor has worried me since before I ever got it pulled from the subframe. It's better to put the old motor in with donations from the new motor and have a fully running car than to even waste my time trying to figure out what the hell is all over my garage door, floor, and breathe that ungodly smoke anymore.

It's like I told Chris earlier. I need to put a new rear motor mount in, so the work has to be done anyway. Might as well put the better motor in while I'm at it.

I might have spent $2,300 on this new motor, but the end result is the same: Running BEAMS with LSD. Who cares which motor it is?

man. it's really gonna take two beams to get your one car running isn't it? hopefully combining the two will give you a good running engine.

It takes 2 beams to make richee's car move!

It takes THREE beams to make richees car move!

And god, does it run!

Old BEAMS is back in with a fresh tranny, VVT controller, the new T stat I got from Toyota, OEM intake, an SS-III axle (only one, unfortunately,) and a list of brand new sensors. Yesterday, I got the old motor out and the new motor mostly in. It would have been all the way in and started if it wasn't for a lack of fluids and a family function to attend. Today, there was an inch of snow on the ground. The real nasty, slushy stuff that tends to pull Celicas around. So I worked slowly and got it started and put back together. There's a little story, but first, some pictures. I skipped the boring stuff because we've seen enough BEAMS hovering in the air over my engine bay.

Proof of LSD:


I complained of a wimpy clutch on the new BEAMS. Turns out it's using an Exedy clutch. I guess the pedal feel just sucks? Or else it's worn out. Either way, I don't care enough to take it apart and find out.


How it sits right now:


And one final picture, further proof of LSD:


I have to say, the LSD feels totally different than the regular S54. I wouldn't call it a huge difference, but it feels different. Backing up, however, is a huge difference.

On to the bad news. We all remember thermostat #1, with the half broken gasket. Thermostat #2, brand new from Napa, for whatever reason, was opening too soon and not letting the motor warm up fast enough. So I went and bought a brand new thermostat from Toyota and paid way too much for it. Now it won't open at all. Seriously? Three thermostats in a row? Really? That's just bad luck. I'm waiting for the motor to cool down so I can swap the thermostat out again, then go for another drive and do some more testing. As of right now, I have an exhaust leak (long story why I still have one) but otherwise, the motor seems to be running strong. Finally.

so the second engine with all new sensors and ecu?

FINALLY...

No, it's the old BEAMS that bogged. Basically, I pulled it out, put the new one in, said a lot of bad words, pulled it out, and gave my old BEAMS new life. And with any luck, I'm done swapping for a while. Onto my next project...

Lots of points to cover here. Glad you finally have a running BEAMS. Crazy to think that a not-too-distant while ago, we were still discussing the awesomeness of the Redtop in theory, now you've experience to back it up. Awesome.

Also, I'm in for hearing long story, and curious to hear how it affects rearward maneuvering...wider turning circle?

Thirdly, try taking t-stat back to Toyota, have them lend fresh one, install it in parking lot, and if it works don't bitch for a refund, but otherwise do.

This post has been edited by SwissFerdi: Dec 27, 2011 - 9:29 PM

i need to change my timing belt, clutch and yada yada yada, but i still dont loose faith in a distant swap

Right? Then said car got sold and we both lost hope. Then the car came back and it's got a BEAMS or three.

Point #2: The exhaust nuts rounded off as soon as I tried to break them free, so we had to torch them off, screwing up the studs. Didn't matter much at the time since it was intended for this motor to be a decoration for my garage. Then the B pipe and header didn't want to line up on the new motor. The exhaust shop welded the B pipe on about 1/4" too far forward and I couldn't get it where it needs to be, so I had an exhaust leak on the new BEAMS. Now this BEAMS is back in the car, the B pipe is still too far forward, and I have no exhaust studs to attach the B pipe to the header. For now, I drilled out two of the old studs and put my own nuts and bolts in just to hold the b pipe up to the header, but they aren't lined up or attached by any means. It's quieter than running an open header but that's about it.

As for the thermostat, my receipt is long gone. Not much chance of getting them to take it back. I'll go throw what fit I can, but I expect it to get me nowhere but $20 poorer for another new thermostat. I need one though. Driving with this Greytop thermostat is driving on borrowed time. It could go out any time. It might last for years or quit in ten minutes. I'll chance my $20 and get a new one.



Why change the clutch if the one you have now works? That's around $350, if I remember my prices correctly. Not that there's anything wrong with basic maintenance, but why fix what isn't broken? I still need to replace my timing belt as well though. I'm not looking forward to it. I'm personally hoping to not have to pull this motor out again for any reason.

In other news, I'm clocking miles on the motor again. All seems well so far. Down on power just a bit, but it felt like this the first time I had the motor in and was running open header. Once I got the exhaust hooked up, it perked up a bit. Speaking of exhaust, I'm strongly considering picking up an OEM 3S-GE muffler and getting the exhaust upgraded to the 2.25" that the BEAMS came with. Not because I think it'll add extra power, but because the BEAMS running through the GT muffler kinda sounds crappy. You can tell it's definitely a 2 liter 4 cylinder. Sounds kinda tinny. Brigette doesn't mind, but I hate hearing her drive away. At any rate, I need a new catalytic converter and the flanges are pretty rusted up so I might as well upgrade while I'm paying to have the work done.

my clutch is starting to slip, and smell.

I went away with the cat, its a straight pipe!

Hows the LSD feel different? Stiffer wheel?

Pretty much. Steering feels a little heavier, which I prefer. Give it gas coming out of a corner and the wheels straighten out a little quicker. Put it in reverse and turn, it'll whip around a lot quicker than it used to. But the biggest difference I've found is in 1st or 2nd gear, when I take it to redline, the car will let me know real quick if I don't have the steering wheel perfectly straight. Just a touch either way and that's where the car is going.

Exhaust should be getting hooked up today. I can't wait to test the car with a little peace and quiet.

Noberto, I see your point. Time for a new clutch indeed. Going with what seems to be the standard clutch setup? BEAMS disc, 185 pressure plate? I have to say, the pedal is a bit stiff with the 185 pressure plate but I think it's the perfect feel. Not so stiff it hurts your leg, but not soft and wimpy like the 5S pressure plate.

So the BEAMS swap is done and finished. For real this time. Exhaust is hooked up, small coolant leak is taken care of, power is way up, throttle response is up, and many goofy looking grins are in our future. The only thing left is about 15 minutes reinstalling the underbody plastics and then all the motor work is done. It's running 100%, finally. Now I just need to get in gear and clean the spare motors/suspension/etc. out of my garage. Now that the motor work is done, Brigette and I will be looking forward to finishing up some of the body work. The car is still in great shape, but the last couple of years have not been kind to it. There are a couple of rust spots in the usual places- rear fenders, bottom of the passenger door. We'll be picking up a GT4 hood before too long to finish the front end conversion. We've discussed the idea and we both agree that we like Ford's metallic black that they offer on a handful of cars and trucks. Toyota's metallic black is just too gray, but the Ford color is actually black with metallic flake. By going with that color, there's no need to get the door jambs/trunk repainted. Since it's a metallic color, it won't show scratches, swirl marks, or light dirt as easily. I was intending to get the car painted for her for Christmas, but the BEAMS kinda took precedence. It's finished up now, so we've definitely got our sights set on body work and finishing up the car.

Hopefully she'll chime in soon and give her opinion of how the BEAMS felt before compared to how it feels now. I can sit here and talk about it all day but it's her car so it'll be nice for the real owner to give her $.02 on the BEAMS.

ill take some random gt rear disc stuff if you dont needs it

Thanks so much for the awesome help today, bro! Couldn't have done it without you, man! I can't even describe the glorious feeling I had when that thing actually started! Heh. Thanks again, bro!

Daniel's been nagging at me to post something in his progress thread since its my car, even though at this point its not really my car. I only have the title....
Anyway, here goes:


Well, its officially done

Its been a long process and a whole lot of work (on Daniel's part anyway )
But it was definitely worth it.
The Beams fits my driving style quite nicely

This post has been edited by Celisauras16: Jan 1, 2012 - 7:25 PM