6G Celicas Forums

First off, this is more difficult than just swapping a GT 5S-FE to a 3S-GTE. The GT shares many components with the 3S-GTE engine. First of all, the major parts that will need to be replaced.
So, you thought you could save some money and just buy the engine and not the clip? Sorry to tell you but you will probably spend the same IF NOT MORE than just a clip. So BUY A CLIP.
I made that mistake and this list reflects that.
If you bought a clip you can salvage a lot of parts listed on here GOOD CHOICE!

Transmission:

The 7A Transmission will not mount up and you cannot use the GT-4 Transmission and ‘just cap the back.’ So you will have to get a Transmission of your choice. The GT one, is a probably the most common you’ll see. To save money, time, and effort people will generally use it. However you also have the choice of an MR-2 E-153 Transmission.

The E-153 comes with its own work as it doesn’t directly mount up like the GT transmission. I don't know all the details but, with the MR2 transmission you need the MR2 AND GT half shafts. You are basically replacing the inner heads of the GT axels because they won't work in the transmission, while the passenger MR2 axel is shorter and neither wont mate with wheel splines. The rear transmission mount and bracket can be used off of the GT-4 from what I have read, but I think there is a little more work to it.(see other Swap threads for more information).
But with that, the E-153 can hold the power way better than the GT transmission, as well you might have the chance to get LSD.
Now because you are getting a new transmission you’ll need a few more things.

Axels:

GT and ST Axels are of course, different. Everything on an ST is just smaller so nothing really likes to work. Now the GT Passenger axel uses a Carrier bearing to keep it in the transmission. So if your 3S didn’t come with the carrier bearing bracket. You’ll need to beg and plead to get one.
Here is a Guide on the Axels: http://www.diy.icydesigns.com/article/308/...:_Axle_Removal/

Engine mounts and Brackets:
Guess what, the ST has a different Passenger side mount. The other MOUNTS around the car are the same however; make sure you get Celica GT mount BRACKETS. These are severely different from the ST. since you are changing the engine change the mounts. Just order GT mounts and you should be golden.


Passenger side mount notes:
On the GT they actually have wielded bolts on the underside of the frame, but of course the ST doesn’t. so you are going to need a few washers, 2 nuts and 2 seriously long bolts. Then you are going to drill out the pre marked spots on the body of the engine. (two indented points on the frame) then two on the bottom. Then you need to run the bolts down through the frame and tighten that sucker up.


Shifter Cables:
Now if you are looking here and have an auto transmission, I don’t know if it works with the 3S-GTE (my guess? NO).
Other than that, you will need to replace your ST Shifter Cables for GT Cables. The positions of the cable ends are completely different on the transmission end. The shifter in the car can be used.
E-153: you CAN use the GT-4 cables.

Exhaust:
Of course this also has to be changed out. But that isn't a bad thing. At this point you can take the time to upgrade the exhaust to either 2.5" or 3" exhaust depending in preference. (if you have the money I highly suggest it.) if you go the route of 3" Berk Technology has an amazing 3" 2nd and 3rd gen downpipes. (Berk Tech). After the work and parts I spent around $500.
The possible bad. I have a 97, so I have OBDII. After everything was finished I had a full 3" system through the muffler with NO cat.
Not sure if this was because of my cities regs or what. I've heard people saying OBDII won't pass emissions so I don't know what is up with that.
While we are on the subject, I had my wire harness done by TWEAK'D performance, so that might have something to do with no codes being thrown. So check them out.

Radiator: (might be able to use Clip one)
HAS to be replaced. Not only will outlet be on the wrong side, the size is twice that of the ST. so cooler engine=happy engine. And with that the hoses have to be switched out as well.
You will also need a radiator thermostat. A GT one will do, and the plug is tapped up on the body so its plug and play after that.
Steering: (clip should have this)
On the ST the reservoir is attached to the pump on the back of the engine. Well you can guess what that means. You need to get the GT reservoir AND the hoses that run to the rack and pump.

AC: (might be able to use clip, but might want to replace them.)
The lines are not the same. The AC is bigger and pretty different as well. So you need to replace those.

Besides all of the other random parts you will need for the swap that even the GT's need, that should cover most of the work. I am always happy to take questions and help out where I can.

Kevin

This post has been edited by Soulend: Oct 10, 2013 - 2:47 AM

Very good info as i did the same swap on my 95st. But, i will have to say buying just the motor was a ton cheaper for me.

Yea, you can find 3S engines with a FWD trans bolted to them already for under $2k, you just have to be willing to search for them. Unless you want all the body parts from a clip, a clip is a waste of money, IMO. I've done 5 or 6 of these swaps and NEVER once had to buy a clip.

well I guess I do have the "bad news bear" of engines. I think I payed around 2K and I didn't the intercooler pump, radiator, or half the engine bay parts. I just got the the engine, 5s transmission and wire harness. which is to say all of it was in bad shape. hell the turbo, which I had rebuilt, lasted just over a year in the car. plus I've had a million other problems with it.

ontop of that, if you want the front body parts, its better to have the clip.

I find it ironic though, I say I got 'just the engine' and people say 'you should have gotten the front clip!' but when I say 'you should get the front clip!' people speak up saying ' you don't need it!' lol can't win for losin'.

Kevin

This post has been edited by Soulend: May 15, 2012 - 12:31 PM

I guess I should have specified that for you 6GC guys, I can understand you guys wanting a full clip. I've worked mostly with ST185s and ST215s. Both were into 6GC's, so a clip would have been pointless.

haha yeah I see your point. but yeah I am specifying for the 7A crowd here on the forums. thanks for your input. as you can see I try to get you guys as much business as I can. each time I find someone wanting to do the swap I suggest sending the harness to you.

Kevin

Its a horse a piece

Which ecu would you run? Just plug the 3sgte one in?

Yes that is the ECU you should use. unless you end up doing a lot of other work and get an aftermarket one.

Kevin

Thanks Kevin! We appreciate it!

-Cam, Tweak'd Performance

Thanks. I was just curious because I've heard that in japan they have a higher octane than 91 and the ecu was programmed to the higher octane. I believe its somewhere around 96 octane? Not sure.

So pump 91 octane is ok for it? Factory settings btw.

Anyway this thread has shined a lot of light for me since I have a 97 st hatch. Thanks

yeah 91 is good for the engine. that is what I and most of the 3S owners use. I have read (though I'd research it more) that 100+ octane can be ran through the car with no problem as well.

and from what I read, the Japanese Octane rating is different, so it SEEMS higher than here but in reality, its about the same. so in a sense "yes the ECU is tuned for higher octane"... starting at 91.

Glad its of some use!
Kevin

Another quick question... how is the wiring? Please don't tell me to just send it out.

I'm wondering if its plug and play. I'm new to toyota but old to the.car scene.
Very familiar with hondas and acuras.

Would the wiring be just a matter of extending wires? Or changing out the clips?

I know extending wires for sure, but would I have to repin new clips?

I'm just researching everything before I start buying parts. Front clip in mind btw.

Thanks for the info

wiring will be the same as coming from a GT or ST. extending the harness, and yes changing some of the pins.

now ill jump on my bandwagon, if you are upgrading from an ST, I highly suggest going to a V6 instead of 3S-GTE. you can buy the 1MZ and the correct E153 combination for about 1200, with the harness and ECU and hopefully axles.

upgrading from a GT could be cheaper just buying the 3S-GTE just because there is so much similarity between the two.

are you crazy do no run 100 octane on these stock 3sgte motors. They use ron to measure fuel before it ignites as to where we use octane(ron + mon)

Stock 3sgte are meant to be ran on 93-94 octane for full power. 91 octane = 95 ron

Japanese and the rest of the world can use 100 ron on stock 3sgte/3sge beams which is the same as 93-94 octane.

California is the only state basically that doesn't get 91 octane because everything is so expensive over here. before 1993 they used to sell 93 octane.

This post has been edited by BonzaiCelica: Jun 27, 2012 - 5:42 PM

there is nothing wrong with running 100 octane gas in the 3S-GTE, if you turn up the distributor and run higher octane gas it will run like a bat outta hell. we do this all the time in the All-Trac

so im in the middle of this swap (97 celi st/91 mr2 3s-gte & E-153) and i purchased the gt-4 shifter cables, and i put the gt4 cables next to the st cables and they were identical so i was alittle angry thinking i got taken, i did some research and found a pic on these forums comparing gt and gt4 cables. so looking at the gt4 cables in the pic they just like the two sets that i had so i decided to put them in anyway and shifting feels normal (without car running cause im not done yet). any thoughts

it does not surprise me that the ST cables and the GT4 cables are the same. the ST uses a different transmission and the placement of the linkage just happens to be about the same for the ST and the GT4. sorry you bought a set of GT4 cables and really didnt need them. the GT cables are definitely shorter than the GT4.

now did you use a MR2 transmission or Camry/Solara? the MR2 trans has the linkage on the front Vs the back in the camry.

**it happens! good info for others that might want to swap to e153. im using the mr2 trans, i just converted the linkage and put a quarter in the hole and sealed it with alumalloy.

ha ha well thats one way to do it. if it works i say congrats!!!!