6G Celicas Forums

yes, along with 5 other guys from my school. With such a small team it was a wild ride to get the car done in time for competition. Lots of long nights... so there wasn't much room for the celi unfortunately




After what I just went through with the formula car, 2 weeks is a luxurious amount of time haha. The problem is I'm waiting on parts from the UK. . which so far have been taking forever to arrive. So I cant make any promises. Plus I refuse to rush anything, I want to maintain a high level of quality during this build.

please put the ban hammer away haha

This post has been edited by enderswift: Jul 4, 2012 - 2:19 PM

Hello 6gc,

it's time for a long overdue rebuild update. I've spent the past few days taking care of a lot of the tedious but important aspects of the rebuild, mainly cleaning, logistics, and organizing/cataloging. Nevertheless, there is a bunch to show and I feel that the hard part is almost behind me.

my overall goal was to prepare the bottom end for tolerancing and machining, so the first step was to remove all of the extra bits from the block and clean them up. This included the oil cooler, oil pans, and everything else not associated with the rotating assembly. Heres a photo of the oil pans after cleaning:



These pans were covered in a really stubborn layer of pure crap, so I had to bust out the simple green and wage total war. It wasn't a fun process, but I think the results were well worth the effort.

From there I had to deal with the old silicone sealant. Most people recommend using a razor blade to scrap it off, but I ended up nicking the surface without making much progress. So I decided to try out an 80 grit bristle brush. 3m makes these things and they are apparently fantastic at cleaning aluminum mating surfaces without damage:



And the results:



you really can't ask for a better finish than that. I highly recommend this to anyone working on something similar. To finish things off I put the proper bolts into the pans and secured them with twist ties so installation will be easy in the future.


Next I moved on to preparing a portion of the rotating assembly for storage until I was ready to start tolerancing. This consisted of taking the piston-rod assemblies apart and cleaning each part individually. The first thing to do is to remove the c clips that hold the wrist pin from moving axially. Easier said than done, my first attempts sent the clips flying and it was miracle that I found them. For future reference I suggest doing this with your hands inside of a box, that way the clips will just bounce around the box instead of getting lost. With the clips removed I was expecting a rough time because the factory manual insists on heating everything in a tank before pressing out the wrist pins, but I was able to just push them out with my thumb. I'm not sure if that's because it was a hot day or if I need to replace the rod bushings, I guess I'll find out soon enough.

The pistons were cleaned in a vat of simple green extreme and properly labeled before being placed into a corresponding bag. I'm not taking any chances with mixing these parts up, especially since the piston and wrists come as matched sets!



The connecting rods were just cleaned in regular simple green before being labeled as well. Here's the end result of my work:



By this point the block was almost bare and all I had to do was remove the crankshaft and the pair of pumps. I started with the oil pump and carefully removed one bolt at a time (cleaning each one) and transferring it to a corresponding location on the new pump. I then transferred over the timing gear and installed a new koyo bearing. The same was done for the water pump. I also made sure to keep the old gaskets so it will be easy to match new ones in the future:

Here is the new oil pump with everything moved over:




Having done all of this I was able to finally remove the crankshaft and place it in a tub to soak along with the rear main housing:



A quick soak later and the crankshaft was looking pretty good:



unfortunately all is not well with the crank. After cleaning I noticed that the counterweights around the #4 rod journal had some discoloration:



uh oh. The first thing that came to my mind was that I had an overheated crank. But things just didn't add up.

why is it only on the counterweight and not the journal itself?
why is it only one journal?
why aren't the bearing destroyed?
why isn't the connecting rod discolored too?
why is this happening to me?

Here are more photos to show what I mean:

#4 connecting rod, no discoloration or damage of any kind (I don't know why it came out brown in the photo, its actually cast grey after being cleaned.. I guess htc can only do so much with a phone camera):


#4 rod bearings (also came out brown in the photo). The bearings look like what you'd expect, no pitting or scoring and only light wear through two layers:


There is also discoloration around main #5 right next to the rod journal. After doing some research I found out that certain manufacturers do what's called induction heat treating. It is meant to strengthen certain points of a crankshaft and would explain what I'm seeing. The reason that its only on rod journal 4 and main 5 is because those are the two closest points to the output shaft and clutch, and therefore see the most load (or perhaps they are just furthers from the pump). It would also explain why there's no damage on anything else, not even the bearings, which would go out long before the crank discolored like that. Heres a video of the induction hardening process:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52zsbqVgyP4

I'm basing my bearing assessment on a number of sources, but just to illustrate my point here's a website that shows a number of damaged bearings and their cause:

http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article/51...ngs_go_bad.aspx

My bearings don't match any of those and instead look like normal wear from a number of other engines I've seen. So this is a real mystery to me at the moment.

I would really hope that the crank came like this from the factory but the thing is, I feel I would have heard about induction hardening on 3s cranks by now. Maybe this is a late-model 3s feature? If anyone can chime in I would appreciate it. For now I'm going to tolerance the absolute crap out of this crank checking everything from the roundness of the journals to the runout of each main. I'm also going to talk with my machine shop to get their opinion. Right now I feel the crank is fine, but I want to make absolutely sure.

Anyway, that's where I stand at the moment. I'm going to hold off on ordering new bearings until I find out what the situation with the crank is. In the mean time I'm going to send the block to my machinist and work on some side stuff

This post has been edited by enderswift: Jul 4, 2012 - 3:32 PM

I just cant wait for a LSD burnout video.

dont be too concerned with the crankshaft. you can have it inspected at a machine shop if you are concerned. you are doing a good build. keep it up

If you want, while I've got my 3S crankshaft out of the engine I can compare counter weights just for notes sake.

LMK




Oh - and uh, great work on YOUR project too!

KAOS, yes please take a look at your crank for me, it'll be interesting to see if you have the same colors on yours.



you and me both!



I cant not be concerned lol. I've invested so much money and effort that I have to be absolutely sure about the parts I'm using, especially something as important as a crank. Thanks for the vote of confidence though, and I'm definitely going to visit my machine shop soon

This post has been edited by enderswift: Jul 5, 2012 - 6:38 PM

Well there's only one thing you can do now.

LIGHTWEIGHT FORGED INTERNALS!!!

^^^THIS. Most Definitely.

As it turns out - VERY similar... I didn't notice before, thanks for pointing it out.

You're the man KAOS! thanks for the pics, it makes me feel confident that these cranks are factory induction hardened at the rear main.

Whew



must.... resist... urge... to .. punish bank account

hey 6gc,

I have another update to share. A few weeks ago I sat down and tried to get a jump on some of the wiring needed to get this project going. Overall it was fairly straightforward except for the fact that I ran into several different colors of wire at the st204 EA1 plug which weren't consistent with what the gt4 chassis manual was telling me. I checked the '95 usdm diagrams and they matched what was in the gt4 chassis manual, So I started to suspect that post obdII cars are wired slightly different. So I went ahead and ordered the 1999 usdm wiring manual for $20 and went to town as soon as it showed up. Here's just a few photos of the mayhem:


First things first, gotta get organized.



Things get confusing really quick so I wrote down all of the EA1 pin numbers and attacked them one by one. I got all of the circuits matched up and figured out all of the color issues. Pin 12 on the st204 EA1 had me worried because it was taking the spot of one of the wires coming out of the st205 intercooler/fuel pump relay box. Luckily it turned out that the st204 wire was just a ground so there was no problem in replacing it with the relax box wire.


This is a photo I took of my st204 EA1 plug as a reference while matching everything. This way I didn't have to keep running in and out of the house haha


Here's a picture of the mini harness getting tested for continuity. For those of you aspiring to do the swap on your own, don't be intimidated by the wiring, because this is all it is. If you can get your engine with the intercooler/fuel pump relay box you're golden.


This is the partially complete supplemental harness (I still have to finish wrapping it nicely). The wire pointing down plugs into the intercooler pump, the loose wires pointing up are extras that get ground and power. To the right is the EA1 connector. All I have to do now is transfer over the pins from the EA1 connector in this photo to the connector that's in my car, find power for two of those loose wires, and ground for the third one. And that's it for wiring in the engine bay. I still have to extend the actual 3s engine harness by 3 feet and wire up the clutch start switch, but that's going to have to wait for another day. When I get all of that done I plan to finish my wiring write up and post it for those who want to do wiring on their own. More to come soon

This post has been edited by enderswift: Jul 17, 2012 - 12:04 PM

nice

Nice! Quite interested to see your in bay wiring.

Didn't get the relay boxes with my set, but once I get it all drawn up, and the relay's sourced, I plan on doing the same. A good writeup, with simple schematics for others to repeat.

This post has been edited by rave2n: Jul 13, 2012 - 7:13 PM

I can't wait for the startup video It might be a little soon to ask but what are your plans after the swap? Power goals, specific body bits and pieces, suspension setup, etc.?

soo, whatcha gonna do with the 5s when it's out of there? wink wink nudge nudge

hmm I never really put too much thought on what to do with it other than playing with the idea of buying a camry roller for my brother and building him a daily. That's looking like more work than its worth though. Anyway the motor has 106k on it at the moment and it burns oil during highway drives. But I just did the timing belt and compression is within 5 psi on all cylinders. Lets wait until the next meet after im (hopefully) swapped to figure something out

quick update,

Got a few parts in:



optioned out Berk downpipe. It's gorgeous

All main, and connecting rod bearings

OEM timing belt

Walbro 255 fuel pump

Arp main studs

Free HKS SSQV III from my buddy

There are still a few things to buy before this engine is ready to go. For instance, I'm looking at having clutchmaster make me a hybrid clutch. I still need piston rings. And I need to send my exhaust manifold and turbine housing to jet hot for ceramic coating. From there the really satisfying portion of this build will begin.

This post has been edited by enderswift: Dec 22, 2012 - 10:15 AM

^Where did you get the OEM timing belt and all the bearings? Are they found on other Usdm vehicules? Cause I can't get stuff for the 3rd gen 3sgte here

Edit: found via toyodiy that the bearings are found on the St185 and St165 also, so north american dealers should have em. But can't find the timing belt, and I should start looking for one, have any tips on where to look for?

This post has been edited by dudeofchaos: Jul 21, 2012 - 5:08 PM

Nice haul!

Mind me asking the price of that berk downpipe? Debating if I want to grab one myself.

Thanks! I paid $297 shipped. No regrets, it's hands down my favorite part out of all of them. The build quality is great and the customer service was amazing.




I got most of my OEM parts through lithia toyota: http://www.lithiatoyotaparts.com/partlocat...m?siteid=215542

just type the toyodiy part numbers in and you should find stuff for sale. They are great guys with excellent service as well. The belt was pricey though, I paid $89 usd. It was ~$40 usd a few months ago.... gotta pay to play I guess

This post has been edited by enderswift: Jul 21, 2012 - 10:43 PM