the v6 swap information thread, UPDATED 3/1/07 Options

[stephen_lee]

I'm planning on swapping in a 5VZ-FE into my 94 ST. Are there any major fitment issues? i know i'll have to change motor mounts. but thats expected for any non "A" block. And since the 3vz in the Camry comes with the e-153 tranny, the e-153 should then bolt up to the engine, right?

This post has been edited by stephen_lee: Apr 10, 2007 - 5:16 PM

[FORGMANN]

the one issue you may have is the height of motor in relation to height clearance you have for hood ..

the front bank on a 3mz/1mz is 1/2" or so from hitting in front..

i would reccomend a 94-95 1mz with return fuel set up so you wont need to mod fuel lines just toss in a

walbro ..

the 1mz is a failry easy install (engine /tranny bolted in with adapter plate and using st205 mounts)

i personally like the 1mz-3mz motors over 3vz/5vz motors even though wiring is more involved ..

[stephen_lee]

Hmm, okay. i was leaning towards the 3MZ at first, but its harder to find. How complicated would the fuel situation be for the 3MZ? What tranny would be best?? and the wiring, i don't exactly understand why/how this is done..

[My2Celi]

How did you fabricate your adapter plate? Will it be like the guys on the mr2oc forum? and what did you do with the axle?

[Celicaguy13]

Awesome! more v6 celicas. I'm planning to do this in the future forsure. The more info the marryier!

[celicaST]

If it were me doing this swap... 1/3MZ or nothing. There is no advantage going for the 3VZ... and no... an iron block is not an advantage.

not true. if you plan on turbocharging (although a turbo v6 isnt the greatest idea in a fwd car), the 3vz is a much better option. it is cheaper on average, easier to wire, easier to tune, no sludge problem. then there is this thread. a little biased, but the general consensus is FI=vz and NA=mz. considering most on here would swap a v6 and leave it stock, the mz is the better choice i agree, but that doesnt mean the vz has no advantages.

stephen, yes the 5vz will bolt up to the e-153, and you shouldnt have any fitment issues. its been done in an sw20. great motor with lots of low end torque. there is a manual 5vz 5 miles from me with only 70k i can get for cheap. tempting, but i myself am leaning towards the 3sgte again instead of the v6. been driving lots of cars at my new job, and i must say i love boost. i live at a mile in elevation, and a boosted car is the only way to go up here. im sure ill change my mind several more times before i commit to buying an engine (if i even do).

[Kwanza26]

If it were me doing this swap... 1/3MZ or nothing. There is no advantage going for the 3VZ... and no... an iron block is not an advantage.

not true. if you plan on turbocharging (although a turbo v6 isnt the greatest idea in a fwd car), the 3vz is a much better option. it is cheaper on average, easier to wire, easier to tune, no sludge problem. then there is this thread. a little biased, but the general consensus is FI=vz and NA=mz. considering most on here would swap a v6 and leave it stock, the mz is the better choice i agree, but that doesnt mean the vz has no advantages.

A bunch of opinion. Kinda like when Freud came up with the super ego "theory" to justify his "love" for his mother... heh. j/k... but you get what i'm saying? I've been around engines for too long, highly modded, ones, stock one, doesn't matter... and having an iron block doesn't automatically make that engine stronger for boost. Take the Sr20 for example. Is it any weaker than the 3SG? most would argue no. Easy question... when boosted engines blow up... is it ever because the the "BLOCK" gave out? No... never. The block sometimes takes a beating, but that's always because a rod broke and punched a hole through it, or a piston flew apart or something. It's never.... oh just because it's alluminum it's gonna break while the rods and pistons are intact. The alluminum block itself actually feels very little friction, aside from heat... but that's the same as an iron block... however, the iron block, most of which are closed deck, do feel from friction. I still say... go with the newer engine. There's absolutely no reason to go with the VZ forced induction or otherwise... besides maybe a money matter. Even still... they're not that different. Anyway... i'll be slowing tearing down a 5VZFE at the shop and I'll be sure to save the rods just to make a comparison in the future.

And... some those MR2 guys are noobs. A mirror polish on the intake ports = Bad for performance... not to mention he bothered to do the polish job and not clean the head... =O lol... each to his own I suppose.

This post has been edited by Kwanza26: Apr 11, 2007 - 10:14 AM

[FORGMANN]

guys i will tell you the absolute best set up is a 94-96 1mz or 97-99 1mz if you cant find other years ..

why .. wiring, return fuel set up, similar functions to 6g compared to later camry's etc.. and you have a lot

less emissions components to deal with and most of all they are cheap .. will save a ton of $$$$

On 3vz/5vz why put a older motor in car ? ..80's designed motor .i should point out packaging a turbo in

v6 celica can be done but very very tight space . will have to place where battery goes .. twin turbo ? forget

it .. use 2 small turbo's but lot of work to make fit and still have oem feel ..

[FORGMANN]

btw

here is a 4g swap .. overall most info can be used for 6g ..wiring is diff of course as well as engine mount

on pass side

http://www.st162.com/forums/viewtopic.php?...;highlight=swap

[celicaST]

guys i will tell you the absolute best set up is a 94-96 1mz or 97-99 1mz if you cant find other years ..

why .. wiring, return fuel set up, similar functions to 6g compared to later camry's etc.. and you have a lot

less emissions components to deal with and most of all they are cheap .. will save a ton of $$$$

On 3vz/5vz why put a older motor in car ? ..80's designed motor .i should point out packaging a turbo in

v6 celica can be done but very very tight space . will have to place where battery goes .. twin turbo ? forget

it .. use 2 small turbo's but lot of work to make fit and still have oem feel ..

woulndt a 97+ 1mz be better for 96-99 celicas since they are obd2 and returnless i believe?

[FORGMANN]

yes and no ..

96-98 would be "better" for later spec celicas if you live in a nazi emission testing state ..


you can adapt return style set up to this motor as well just need to add a fpr like mr2's guy have done


94-02 non vvt-i 1mz parts will interchange through out years .. need return fuel set up .. find a 94-95 and

all you need is fuel rail and parts bolted to it ... i would use injectors if you can get them ..

when i go to yards(been to some any i lost count ) i always scope out core motor pile as well .. you can find dumb parts like

fuel rails and get them for super cheap or free ..

[stephen_lee]

Well, i've decided on the 3VZ-FE. Does anyone know how much trouble I'll have w/ the motor mounts, since i habe ab AT200 chassis??

[snapshotgt]

I think we need another teaser pic bwahahaha

[Jeremiah]

Okay, as a newb and as someone that lives in the NAZI smog capitol of California...

* What are my OBDI options? (I have a 95)
* What's this fuel return / returnless stuff?
* Looks like the V6 is a tight squeeze. How easy is it to service the different V6's? For example, is there easier access to plugs / oil filters on one engine over another?
* Does anyone know the weight difference between the cast and aluminum blocks? Would I have to purchase stiffer springs up front to correct ride height?
* Can I keep A/C with any of these, or do I have to ditch it to make room?
* Dare I ask what the MPG will be after a swap like this?
* If I get an engine that's known for sludge issues - how do I combat it?

(I have a 95). In California, you can swap any passenger car engine in the Celica as long as 1) It comes from same year or newer doner car 2) all original smog equipment is installed. Take it over to CHP, and they check it out - and blue sticker it. In other words, I CAN do OBDII legally, but it'd be a wiring nightmare right?

This post has been edited by Jeremiah: Apr 23, 2007 - 10:30 PM

[Celicaguy13]

wow due your getting your info from an old site... You don't take it to CHP, you make an appointment to see a Smog check Referee. There the inspection will be performed which is basically a regular smog check but also to make sure it's connected as the donner vehicle. After that is done and completed, a BAR Label will be issued and you will be able to smog your vehicle in the regular manor.

And in regards to an OBDII swap, these are a bit more complex but feasable. OBDII comes with a lot of self testing monitors that you have to make sure work. The easiest way to do a obdII swap is to start off with an OBDII but it's still workable. You can do a 95 V6 MT, it's just going to be hard to get the right PCM for it. As i recall a 95 v6 mt camry was very very rare. But if you have any other questions PM me as i can go quite in depth on this.

[j0e_p3t]

^ so that's all i have to do after the swap is done? and then i'd have a completely street legal 200++ hp celica in california?!

edit: bump for more info

This post has been edited by j0e_p3t: May 1, 2007 - 12:06 AM

[Jeremiah]

Can anyone tell me which V6's had the sludge problems, and what can be done (if anything) to correct the sludge issues?

[stephen_lee]

im not sure which engines had the problem, but its due to the fact that toyota found that if the head is hotter, it would get slightly more power && better economy. which, to an extent, is true. but it cooked the oil that went through the head, and caused it to "sludge up". they skimped on the cooling channels in the head. so as far as i know, its not correctable.

[My2Celi]

Well it doesn't matter just get either a 3vz, 5vz, 1mz, 3mz and get it in our car. Better than a 5s wouldn't you say? If the majority of mr2oc community is doing it, it's not a big deal. It's not even an issue.

[Celicaguy13]

^ so that's all i have to do after the swap is done? and then i'd have a completely street legal 200++ hp celica in california?!

edit: bump for more info

After looking up some info on this swap. It is a close call to get a v6 OBDI legal in a 94-95 celica. Because, no vehicle camry/es300 came with a manual transaxle option in those years. The reason that's important is because we have to make sure timing specs are available for Engine/Tranny/Year. Although further research in our books reviels that "Motor Emission control systems application 2006 Edition" has the 94-95 camry with a v6 5 speed option. So It's a go. However some referees may not have the book and some may. We have it so it's been cleared.