2 Stage 3SGTE Swap thread, Stage 1.. almost done =) Options

[_Jim_]

now grant it the gen 2 had 3rd gen electronics...that evens out, it matches the turbo ct27-ct20b i would have to say is somewhat evenly matched..a lot more so then the ct26-the ct20b, and the injectors were bumped up on the 2nd gen...everything else is esentially even...3" exhaust, intake, both are using a helper spring, and using higher octane. Yes the c16 race gas does help a bit more...but this is a pretty even test between the 2 motors..which is a perfect example of how capable a gen 2 is compared to a gen 3. i would say with the mods listed ATS spent about a $1200 more on the gen 2 to put up equal numbers. Not to mention the 2nd gen is probably running stock cams where as the gen 3 has a leg up in that catogory. we could go back and forth about this crap all day long and still get nowhere...but this is a perfect example of not going over 355HP and both motors are putting out equal numbers with little done.

Yes, you are very much correct in saying that the GEN3 conversion for a GEN2 is a VERY nice option.....if you ALREADY HAVE a car with a GEN2 installed in it. BUT, for when deciding which generation 3sgte to swap in....might as well start with a GEN3. There was a lot more money then 1200$ in that setup tho. You have 800 for a ct27, another 1000$ for the Power FC, and another 300-500 in sensors, fuel rail, and injectors. So, it took between 2000-2500$ for the GEN2 to make the same power the GEN3 does stock. And I wouldnt even call it a fair comparison at that, because the GEN2 was running a full standalone ECU, which allows for added power through tuning, and ran much leaner AFR's then the GEN3 ECU...which again makes for more power improvements.....where as the GEN3 numbers were on a STOCK ECU, and had no tuning done.

You guys seem to be getting the wrong vibe here. If you already have a GEN2 installed in your car.....keep it. You do have options obviously for more HP. BUT, if you are considering swapping.....You should go with a GEN3. MOST people dont need over 400whp....so by going GEN3 you can obtain your power goals while still remaining on the stock ECU. To be honest, most people would be happy with 330whp and 310ftlbs, so they wouldn't even need to swap out the turbo.

This is not the first time I have said this.....but I usually bring it up when answering a question whether to turbo someone 5s or swap.....and my answer always is
Sub 300whp, turbo your 5s
300-400whp, Swap to a GEN3
400+whp.....doesnt matter what you choose.

[SlvrCelica09]

Jim, it shows on ur sig that ur runnin 330 WHP.. with the FWD tranny are u getting all the power.. my long term plans is to go AWD.. and im jus a lil curious as to how much exactly your getting to the wheels

[95st-celica]

400+whp.....doesnt matter what you choose.

edit...400+WHP.....5S-GTE..come on now jim! haha


then again 400+ can be obtained by any motor stated above

[_Jim_]

Jim, it shows on ur sig that ur runnin 330 WHP.. with the FWD tranny are u getting all the power.. my long term plans is to go AWD.. and im jus a lil curious as to how much exactly your getting to the wheels

I dont really know what you mean, "am I getting all the power," Since it posts my WHP numbers in my signature....I can only assume you mean traction wise. First gear is a bit of a waste to say the least LOL, but I grab pretty good traction in second gear with a nice set of tires and a warm day. I am also running an LSD E153, so that helps.

I see you say this tho "curious as to how much exactly your getting to the wheels." My signature posts my WHP, so I am making 330whp to the wheels (WHP means Wheel Horsepower) I am making almost 400hp at the crank, all on a stock GEN3

[SlvrCelica09]

yea sorry i meant traction with gear shifting.. i know WHP means wheel horsepower.. just wanted to make sure thats what ur getting and not just a number, do u mind explaining a bit what u meant by 1st gear being a waste.. bc I really dont want to buy an FWD tranny that wont have good traction past 300 WHP... which is why i just want to keep my tranny and leave the engine stock until I get the AWD.. i drove an sti in the rain once and it was great.. I would love to have AWD on my celica.. i may even decided to do that first..

[95st-celica]

yea sorry i meant traction with gear shifting.. i know WHP means wheel horsepower.. just wanted to make sure thats what ur getting and not just a number, do u mind explaining a bit what u meant by 1st gear being a waste.. bc I really dont want to buy an FWD tranny that wont have good traction past 300 WHP... which is why i just want to keep my tranny and leave the engine stock until I get the AWD.. i drove an sti in the rain once and it was great.. I would love to have AWD on my celica.. i may even decided to do that first..

bro, do you understand how hard it is to put AWD in your car? it doesnt just bolt up, it cost a lot of money, a lot of time, and a lot of parts. Of course it can be done, dont get me wrong, but if you think your gonna swap in a 3sgte, with awd just like that, its not going to happen. you will be looking at close to 10k and with that you should go out and buy a wrx. jim is saying 1st gear is a waste because these damn motors just have too much torque...there are ways to cut down on wheel spin, for instance, an e153 LSD trans, coilovers, sway bars and end links, and of course a real nice set of drag radials, but even still with 320+ horse your still gonna have a little bit of wheel spin....the transmission is not going to give you traction...its just putting the power to the ground that you need to worry about...an e153 transmission isnt going to give you more traction then a stock GT trans...yes you can go with the awd trans and do all that but now you are adding more weight (700+pounds more of weight we are talking about) you need a whole custom rear subframe, gas tank, rear diff, axles, driveshaft, so on and so forth.

[SlvrCelica09]

thanks for your concern celicaST, if you are in fact concerned.. or just trying to bash me since im a "noob" in your eyes bc i have not been on this forum for long(i know plenty of 6gc owners who arent apart of this forum for reasons like this) but i know exactly how much it costs, and what is involved for an awd.. and for an swap.. I am going to invest alot of money into my car.. and I dont want to buy another car.. money is not an issue for me or else i would not have considered this. I didnt make this thread to produce results in a month or 2.. this setup most likely will take 2 years.. maybe 3.. I finally know what I want to purchase.. so just sit back and relax until I update this thread...

[95st-celica]

NICE!

[pipes]

AT THIS RATE IM NOT GOING TO BE SO RARE ANYMORE

[SlvrCelica09]

Has anyone purchased from JDM engine depot in new jersey before.. they supposedly sell longblocks.. they have a ST215 and i just want to make sure that what there selling does infact come with all sensors.. im not too sure based on the pics that it does..

http://www.jdmenginedepot.com/jdm_engine_d..._3S-GTE_4TH_GEN

[lagos]

Has anyone purchased from JDM engine depot in new jersey before.. they supposedly sell longblocks.. they have a ST215 and i just want to make sure that what there selling does infact come with all sensors.. im not too sure based on the pics that it does..

http://www.jdmenginedepot.com/jdm_engine_d..._3S-GTE_4TH_GEN

Thats only a question that that specific importer can answer for you. Even of people have had good/bad experiences with them in the past, it doesn't mean that this specific motor will include everything you need. Most of the time, expect for a lot of misc stuff to be missing when buying an engine set.

[SlvrCelica09]

Has anyone purchased from JDM engine depot in new jersey before.. they supposedly sell longblocks.. they have a ST215 and i just want to make sure that what there selling does infact come with all sensors.. im not too sure based on the pics that it does..

http://www.jdmenginedepot.com/jdm_engine_d..._3S-GTE_4TH_GEN

Thats only a question that that specific importer can answer for you. Even of people have had good/bad experiences with them in the past, it doesn't mean that this specific motor will include everything you need. Most of the time, expect for a lot of misc stuff to be missing when buying an engine set.

thanks man.. I think im gonna take a look at it... if they will allow me to so i can see for myself

[SlvrCelica09]

*a lil baby update*

st205 bought.. i was in frankfurt germany for most of june.. and I just got back from UK to see a friend last friday so thats why im kind of behind in progress.. it should be coming within a week or 2.. ill post pics and stuff during next update. This clip also comes with the AWD complete setup.. still deciding whether or not to sell it or try and convert.. I will let everyone one know during next update

This post has been edited by SlvrCelica09: Aug 22, 2009 - 9:19 PM

[SlvrCelica09]

Allright this is where im at soo far guys.. got the engine and some goods with it.. currently im waiting on pittfighter to give me his tranny and clutch so i can move foward.. (hurry up dude.. lol) but heres some pics of what im working with:








i could bolt the engine to my S54... but i really dont want to.. bc i know 4 a fact ill get boost happy.. i know previously i said i wouldnt.. but now that im closer... i doubt that.. 330 hp is the most i want.. not really building a track car..

but yea next update will b with the engine and pittfighter's tranny in my engine bay.. stay tuned..

[supershannon77]

looking real good if u need help let us no for sure!

[3WayStunna]

NIce thread, and nice engine you have there! Was wondering if you plan on keeping the stock water to air intercooler setup.

Also, its nice to see some healthy discussion on here. And just to add my opinion, investing in the 3rd gen for your power goals, would be the better investment. I know that Jim had beat it all to death, so ill just say that i share his exact same opinion.

Anywho, GL man with your project!!

[_Jim_]

Looking good man!

This post has been edited by _Jim_: Aug 23, 2009 - 9:21 AM

[SlvrCelica09]

NIce thread, and nice engine you have there! Was wondering if you plan on keeping the stock water to air intercooler setup.

Also, its nice to see some healthy discussion on here. And just to add my opinion, investing in the 3rd gen for your power goals, would be the better investment. I know that Jim had beat it all to death, so ill just say that i share his exact same opinion.

Anywho, GL man with your project!!

hey stunna,

love silver celicas.. i hope mines looks as good as yours when its done but yea im keeping the stock water to air system, im not really a big fan of FMIC, dont really feel a need to upgrade to it.. i have the functional hood now so I think the system will work great.. so no need to upgrade, if thats even a upgrade.. as for the tranny.. I doubt I want to get AWD anymore... im gonna use pittfighter's v6 e153 tranny.. so no AWD..particularly for this car.. i think if anything when i grad from college.. im thinking ill buy another 6th gen celica and convert that to AWD.. it may b cheaper then.. (if obama actually comes through lol) so yea im def going to be investing in this 3rd gen.. i dont feel a need to go much over 300WHP.. that much HP in this lightweight car is pretty good

[3WayStunna]

Thanks for the compliment, and youll def enjoy what you end up with! And honestly i always wondered how much fun the FWD 3sgte's are. Lol, hope you find out for yourself!



This post has been edited by 3WayStunna: Aug 23, 2009 - 2:40 PM

[SlvrCelica09]

*another baby update*

alright guys.. there has been some changes to the engine selection.. I went from regular ST205 to WRC st205 (purchased from Jim)

here are some pics of WRC engine i bought from Jim.. its currently sitting at my shop:






Monday is when the grind begins.. im going to take pics of all the other parts I got to go along with this setup.. and also as far as exhaust goes.. we are doing a VERY VERY unique setup.. stay tuned.. cant give it away now..