my 5SFTE turbo project, 300+whp PG 23!!!!!!! Options

[presure2]

hey guys, since i've been fielding alot of questions about turboing the 5s, and most of the links in the 5sfte sticky are dead, i figured i start a thread about the buildup of my kit, and try to include as many details as possible, so everyone can learn a little more about what exactly goes into a setup like this. ill keep updating the threads and adding pics and stuff as i upload more ect..
im not gonna get into the whole why not swap a 3s instead debate here, thats a dead issue as far as im concerned. (not that i think swapping is a bad idea, just not for me.)
so, ill start off by saying the single most important thing you can do if you wanna turbo your 5s is RESEARCH! take your time, learn about the diffrent systems that all work together to make a good kit work. go to www.howstuffworks.com and find out how EVERYTHING works, it'll make understanding the hows and whys of everything so much easier. i've been reserching about this for 2+yrs and i STILL learn new things everyday.
#2 is DONT BE CHEAP...can you do it cheap? yea..will it last? prolly not.
thats gotta be the SINGLE biggest mistake i see EVERYONE make. cheap out on all the little stuff, and it WILL come back to haunt you in the end
that said, i decided i wanted to turbo my 5s. lol
so, off on the hunt i went...parts lists, install sites, the burien kit...i searched it ALLLLLL...for MONTHS!! talking to people, looking at sites, printing info..basicly what the old timers call "goin to the woodshed"
then, i started looking for parts:
3s exhaust manifold, ct-26 turbo, oil hard lines, elbow and primary cat (also known as a downpipe), if your not planning on getting a aftermarket downpipe. also the oil pan and 2bar map sensor.
your gonna want these off of a 2nd gen 3sgte from a 90-93 alltrac or mr2T, and are pretty easy finds over on www.alltrac.net and or www.mr2oc.com. if your not a member of these 2 sites, YOU SHOULD BE!!! theres a wealth of info on these to sites, and while alot of it may not be 5sfte spacific, its still VERY good info, especially the 90-99 mr2/ 3sgte forum.
next was injectors. there is ALOT of confusion here, where to find them, what they look like, what size are they really ect.
what we're looking for is the MKIII N/A supra injectors. not turbo injectors, not alltrac injectors, N/A MKIII supra. theyre a lime green color, and 315cc. just to clear up another point of confusion, they do NOT become bigger injectors in our cars. the fuel pressure between the n/a supra and the 5s is the SAME.
there is a pic in the 5sfte sticky of what they look like and the flow tests to show it.
i found mine on ebay, but you can sometimes find them on some of the boards ive mentioned, and the supraforums.
also, i really reccomend having the injectors cleaned and balanced once you get them, if you look closley at the printout for my injectors in the sticky from when i had them cleaned and balanced, youll see why i say this.
one of my injectors wasnt even spraying, it was DRIPPING before it was cleaned. i'd HATE to see what would happen if i'd installed that thing in there and cranked up the boost!
so yea, i really cant stress enough, HAVE YOUR INJECTORS CLEANED BEFORE YOU INSTALL THEM!!! www.rceng.com did an excelent job on mine for about 100$, and ive heard thru the mr2 board that www.witchhunter.com also does a very good job, and are only 12$ per injector.

EDIT!!! 315CC injectors are TOO SMALL for use in a turbo 5sfe. 460cc rx7 injectors are a drop in replacement and are discribed later in this post!!!


you'll also need to upgrade your fuel pump, use the 255lph walboro supra pump. you can get it for under 100 usually on ebay., and pretty much bolts in.
next for me was the intercooler..now contrary to popular belief, bigger IS NOT always better when it comes to intercoolers.
you wanna choose the smallest intercooler to fit your needs, with a LITTLE room for growth. for instance, in my case, my goal is around 190-200whp for now, so i chose a intercooler thats 26x6x3 overall length, with endtanks. its good for up to 300hp. why not somthing bigger? well, the #1 reason is theres no NEED for anything bigger. lol the bigger you go, the more pressure drop you have, and thats not what we want. with all the piping invloved for a 5sfte FMIC, the last then we want is some big honking core, sucking up 2-3 or more psi of the boost we wanna get to our engines.
for the piping, again, bigger is NOT always better. 2" or 2.25 " is more than sufficent for us. you'll need to buy pre-bent lengths and cut and fit them for your particular setup. jcwhitney is cheap for aluminized steel, or burns stainless if you want stainless pipes.
then the noise maker of the bunch , the BOV...your choice here, i chose the HKS SSQV... got it from ebay for 190+ shipping i think it was..just make sure your buying the real thing if its from ebay, theres alot of shady copys floating around. youll also need a mounting flange to have welded to your intercooler piping, make sure you get the correct size and material to match your piping.
TOO BE CONTINUED...

This post has been edited by presure2: Nov 11, 2007 - 10:53 AM

[presure2]

a word about piping couplers and clamps here.
DO NOT CHEAP OUT ON THIS STUFF!!!!
buy good high quality REINFORCED silicone hose for couplers, and dont cheap out and use those screw-type radiator hose clamps. get some good t-bolt clamps. the screw type bite into the soft silicone, and ruin it over time, causing leaks..ect..IMO do it once, do it right. it'll cost you more up front, but not as much as if you have to buy things twice.
for exhaust, your at the very minimum gonna have to have a new b-pipe welded up to mate to your stock exhaust, not really recommended tho, it WILL be a very large restriction.
its a good time to think custom exhaust here, you can have it built to suit your needs.
im planning on using 2.5" piping from the bottom of my DP back,with a magnflo race muffler on the end, for 2 reasons:
#1 is if for any reason i need to remove the turbo stuff, i can still use my 2.5" piping n/a with a new b pipe, and #2 because i dont see the need for anything bigger with my goals. sure i could go 3" but theres really no need with my setup, so why pay the extra $$ for bigger piping when i dont need to
next up, electronics!
mac, you'll get to drive her after ive driven her good and hard for a WHILE, i know you have NO mercy
adam: after the way you drove at the meet that time, you can drive my car the next day that dont end in y

[shin]

this is an excellent post. i'll be following your steps to complete my 5sfte set up.

[1bwilson]

Thanks Manny

[presure2]

ok gauges..first of course, is a boost gauge, we all know what thats for. what you do after that with gauges is up to you, but ill give you the ones im getting and why i think theyre basicly a must.
oil pressure gauge...if you loose oil pressure, your engine is toast. period. need i say more? lol
EGT (exhaust gas temp.) this is a marginal one...do you NEEEEED to have it? no, prolly not, is it a good thing? hell yes. the higher your EGT is, the closer you are to detonation. bad bad bad.
now im gonna mention a wideband o2 here, and just say its basic use is for tuning. ill get into more detail about that later on..cause its more of a extra than most of this other stuff im talking about now.
ok next is fuel & timing control.
there are a couple ways to go about this, since we need to have a way to control the bigger injectors, we need somthing to add and remove fuel where needed.
thats where a unit like the SAFC or SAFCII come in. what they do in simple terms is take the air flow signal coming that normally goes to the ecu and "tricks" it into thinking there is either more or less air going into the engine, depending on what you do with the settings. now the bad thing about this is when you remove fuel with a piggyback like the SAFC, the ecu thinks theres less air going into the engine than what actually is, and adds timing. this is a bad thing. it leads to your engine going boom. lol
you can also use a unit like the greddy emanage, or the perfect power SMT-6 or 7
both of these units will give you much greater control of fuel AND timing in one unit, and are setup and controlled via laptop.
last here will be turbo timer, just cause i think its one of those things that you dont HAVE to have, but it dont hurt, either
basicly what that does, is allows the car to remain idleing after you shut the car off for X amount of time, depending on which one you have. they all work alittle diffrent, but its purpose is the same, to allow time for your oil to cool abit after hard driving so that the oil dont cake up inside the turbo.
one more thing you wanna think about is your clutch, is it up to the task of handling almost double the power it normally sees? you may wanna think about upgrading to a aftermarket clutch, like a spec, act, clutchmasters or whatever you prefer, thats another debate all together on which to choose, everyone has theyre two cents when it comes to clutches
LOTS MORE TO COME! (we'll start getting serious here with pics and stuff in a bit here, i promise!! haha)

[x_itchy_b_x]

Like you were saying about the Safc for tuning fule how it advances timing. if you use the msd Btm u dont really need to worry about that since all the safc corrections basicly go through the btm last. so the btm is still incontrol of timing no the stock ecu. you know what i mean?

[94GT]

Are you going to scrap the stock oil cooler? The burien instructions act like it's no big deal, but I've seen other posts on this site that preach lower oil temps...

[blu94gt]

just curious what kind of turbo are you using? And what is your estimated cost?

And I don't know where else to put this, but where could I find very small gauges to fit under my stereo in that cubby? I want gauges that are that small so I can close that door on them so I don't have punks looking in my car and seeing all of it, so they'll have to run me to see what I've got for them

[presure2]

hey guys sorry i havent updated this week, i have really buzy installing hardwood floors, by the time i get home from work all i wanna do is go to sleep..lol
ill write a bunch more this weekend, for now ill just answer a couple questions..
itchy, your right, thats why i mentioned it there. the btm takes back the timing the safc adds if you use it to remove fuel.
94GT, no plans to do anything with the stock oil cooler, but the oil filter does have to be relocated. ill talk more about that once i get into the actuall install here.
blu94, im gonna be using a ct-27 from ATS racing, basicly its a ct-26 that has a TO4E 46 trim compressor wheel, and extensive machine work to the exhaust housing to improve flow.
there are a bunch of reasons why, again, ill get to them later on. a short version is i wanted somthing more effecient, that would create less heat.
as for gauges, ive seen a couple pics of 60mm gauges installed in that pocket your talking about but i think the surrounding parts were trimmed and massaged to fit properly, and i dont think they were set up like you described so that you could "shut the door"..
dont worry guys, this sh*t will get interesting here soon, i promise!

[rjbibeau]

how much is that ct-27 runnin ya?? 800 or so. i think turbonetics converts the ct-26 into a t3-t4 setup. i'm looking into it cuz i think my ct-26 pooped out on me.

[presure2]

its like 850 w/core, plus im having the wastegate ported too for another 75$.
To4E 46trim compressor side, and machining out the exhaust housing for improved flow...good stuff ill write a bunch more this weekend guys, been a REAL buzy week at work.

[presure2]

ok i wanna talk a little here about oil lines.
there are a TON of questions about what to do for the oil feed and return lines, so here are a few ideas for you to think about.
now, to get oil to feed your turbo, the quickest and easiest way for us is to use some type of adapter to tap into the head where your stock oil pressure switch is.
now some people will say to just use a cheap brass T off the head...IMO this is a VERY, VERY bad idea. its just a recipie for disaster, and heres why:
that cheap brass T is made of BRASS, a very soft metal. when you screw that into the head, and hand your heavy stock sensor off the other end, and have your feed line coming out of it, it puts alot of stress on that fitting. with all the engine vibration going on, its just a matter of time before it cracks. and that will NOT be cool if your driving down the road when it happens..lol
the better solution is to use this peice:

you can get it here:
click me
it made of steel for much better strength, and has the right thread pitch for our head, and senders. they make 2 versions. one with 2 holes, and one with 3. if you wanna use a aftermarket oil pressure gauge you'll need the one with 3 ( its called the dual, cause they dont count the hole for your stock sender.
its about 20$ plus shipping, well worth it IMO
now the next thing is the oil feed line, and what to use for it.
the line for the oil feed should be no larger than -3an (3/16") alot of people have used re-enforced rubber hose for this, but IMO its one of those things where it just makes sense to spend the money to do it right to avoid problems later on.
www.atpturbo.com will custom make you a pre assembled -3an line with whatever ends you need, (1 straight, 1 90 degree)you want it to be ~16-18" long, tops. for ~ 40$ shipped. it looks like this:

then you just buy 2 STEEL -3an to 1/8"npt fittings, they looks like this:

you can get them from www.summitracing.com for under 3$ ea +shipping. the PT # is EAR961603ERL
use one for the head fitting i talked about earlier, and take the other fitting, and the stock oil line to you local machine shop, and have them cut the banjo bolt off the stock line, and weld the fitting onto it. heres a few pics of what i am talking about.
what it looks like with the fitting welded onto it:

with the feed line attached:

complete setup with adapter fitting for the head and autometer oil pressure gauge sender attached:

with that setup, you can pretty much forget about it, once its been run and know theres no leaks.
for the return, IMO the best setup is the stock 3s setup, meaning the 3s oil pan (yes it bolts right up) with the stock 3s rubber elbow between that and the stock return line. the rubber elbow is like 38$ from toyota, but again, its not one of those things where you wanna cheap out. its worked on the 3s for 10+ yrs, it'll work for us as well. more to come!

This post has been edited by presure2: Feb 15, 2009 - 8:26 AM

Attached image(s)

 

[urbandork]

the better solution is to use this peice:

you can get it here:
click me
it made of steel for much better strength, and has the right thread pitch for our head, and senders. they make 2 versions. one with 2 holes, and one with 3.  if you wanna use a aftermarket oil pressure gauge you'll need the one with 3 ( its called the dual, cause they dont count the hole for your stock sender.
its about 20$ plus shipping, well worth it IMO

[right][snapback]269514[/snapback][/right]

i have ordered this peice a few weeks back after stumbling on to the site. Good customer service and fast shipping. The fitting came neatly packaged, it also came with one npt plug (i got the dual) and it also look nice. Looking foward to putting it on in a few months.

btw pressure whats the lenght of the hose for the feed line.

This post has been edited by urbandork: Apr 12, 2005 - 11:56 AM

[Newbie]

How about coolant lines.. Any pictures of that, anyone? Thanks.

[presure2]

ok guys since its been awhile since i updated this i figured id give it a bump up and get it going again, been ordering up the last bit of parts i need to complete my kit, i should be installing everything by june 1 if all goes well
first, as some of you might have seen, i recently went to the dyno to get a baseline of what kinda power the 5s is making right now, before the install. i left there pleasantly suprized that she put down 115whp and 127ftlbs of torque on her best run, with only a injen intake installed.
leads me to believe that arts(lagos') motor is in very healthy shape, just as i suspected when i bought it.
so after that, i took my used 3s exhaust manifold over to the local machine shop to have them drill and tap a hole for my EGT gauge, and resurface it as well.
here are a couple before pics:


heres a few after





now THATS good stuff!!
it really does look just like a new peice, they sandblasted it for me. it cost 42$ total to have it all done.
now that that is done, its been sent off to finishline coatings for ceramic coating
ill post more pics of it when it gets back from them.
lots more to come!
lots more pics to come!

This post has been edited by presure2: Jan 1, 2008 - 9:51 AM

[Drocay]

very nice, bro.

good job.

[presure2]

i also have been working on getting my oil feed line and oil filter relocation kit in order, here are some pics of that stuff:
heres a pic of where we tap into the head for the oil feed, the stock oil sender location

the steel T with the stock and aftermarket senders attached


heres some of the oil filter relocation kit parts, all stainless braided hose -10 and earls fittings:
everything

the fittings

[presure2]

the canton racing oil filter relocation adapter

the trans-dapt filter side

still LOTS more to come

[CelicaZR]

This will be very helpful for me in the future
No money to do anything yet
Keep up the good work man

[94GT]

Update?