4age vs 7afe, looking for dyno Options

[95ST]

Im looking for dyno graphs of 7afe and 4age, Im interested in possibly doing this swap, however I would like to beable to compair the powerbands of the 2. I am concerened with the low end powerband of the 4age. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Steve

[playr158]

off the line the 4a will lag a little but is much faster then the 7a

[95ST]

yeah, but Im looking at the daily driving aspect of the 2 engines. The 7a is just underpowered in all aspects. Im interested in compairing the 2 so I can see where the transition will be from "laging" to "pulling ahead" Im also looking at the transmission options so the powerband of the 4a is important

[Dr_Tweak]

yeah, but Im looking at the daily driving aspect of the 2 engines. The 7a is just underpowered in all aspects. Im interested in compairing the 2 so I can see where the transition will be from "laging" to "pulling ahead" Im also looking at the transmission options so the powerband of the 4a is important

The transition will happen at about 4k RPM. Use the tranny that comes with the 4AGE and you'll be golden.

-Doc

[95ST]

r u saying the 4age is a dog below 4,000? or is it compairable to my 7a below 4,000?

[Dr_Tweak]

The 7AFE is a dog below 4000, lol.

Below 4000 they're about the same.

7AFE might go a bit better below 2000 rpm. MIGHT.

This post has been edited by Dr_Tweak: Dec 21, 2005 - 1:05 AM

[95ST]

below 2000 isnt much of a problem dont spend much time there, as long as its close in the middle range rpms and then better in the high end I will be very pleased. I just dont want to loose power in any part of the useable rpm range the 7a is bad enough ; )

[nik]

below 2000 isnt much of a problem dont spend much time there, as long as its close in the middle range rpms and then better in the high end I will be very pleased. I just dont want to loose power in any part of the useable rpm range the 7a is bad enough ; )

7a has more low end torque than the 4age but the 4age makes its power higher in the rpm range just an idea take the block and rods of the 7a put a high comp small port 4age head and pistons on and you should be close to 140 crank horse

[95ST]

Im more interested in the high end of the 4a however I am nervous about going to a 1.6L and loosing the low end, if it will be comparable from 2500-4000 then an improvement from 4000-redline I think that I would deffinatly be happy with the 4a. If I could afford the black top I wouldnt even hesitate. I think if I put a quality exaust / intake package on the car along with the engine and possibly some form of tuneable ecu I would be more than pleased with the engine.

[nik]

Im more interested in the high end of the 4a however I am nervous about going to a 1.6L and loosing the low end, if it will be comparable from 2500-4000 then an improvement from 4000-redline I think that I would deffinatly be happy with the 4a. If I could afford the black top I wouldnt even hesitate. I think if I put a quality exaust / intake package on the car along with the engine and possibly some form of tuneable ecu I would be more than pleased with the engine.

best person to talk to about all 4ag on here would be kwanza26 aka Bee

[95ST]

I will deffinatly hit him up if I have any questions, Im pretty much shopping around figuring out what I want so I can design a package I think my target would be around 150-160 whp with a light weight flywheel/strong clutch, should be a fun setup, Im not looking to set any records just to have something alittle different and to have a fun car to drive.

[Kwanza26]

The 7AFE doesn't make more torque than the 4AGE... ever... except maybe under 2000 rpms. The 7A reaches its max torque faster (under 2000 rpms) but it flattens off and trails. That's the quick pick-up you can feel with engines like the 7AFE and 5SFE. Unlike those, horsepower engines have very flat torque delivery in the low-end, but pick up as the engine revs higher. You don't feel this as much because there is already rotation and movement to absorb that torquey feel. This is why when Toyota people drive something like... say... a Honda S2000... they're like... "Huh? where's the torque. Torqueless wonder" and so on and so forth. The S2000 makes much more torque at any given point than your typical 5SFE... but it just delivers it on the opposite end of the spectrum. Say if you shift however... with the 5SFE at redline and the S2000 at redline... you reach a dead spot where the engine makes no power... then when you reach the next gear and mash on the throttle... the S2000 with pull significantly harder that the 5SFE powered car. This is comparable to the dead-stop or low-range torque of the 5SFE...

[akiyama]

7afe has an economical head design compaired to the 4age head which is for racing. I used to drive an ae 92 with a small port 4age and in my opinion its better than the 7afe. however why not put a turbo on your 7afe and turn it to a 7afte? now I drive a ae112 with a 7afte and I love the response and power of the car I guess its better than the 4age small port.

[nik]

hey Kwanza26 whats your opion on 7age?

[Kwanza26]

hey Kwanza26 whats your opion on 7age?

Great for a performance street car... but IMO... if you're gonna go full race or something... 4AGE.

[95ST]

7afe has an economical head design compaired to the 4age head which is for racing. I used to drive an ae 92 with a small port 4age and in my opinion its better than the 7afe. however why not put a turbo on your 7afe and turn it to a 7afte? now I drive a ae112 with a 7afte and I love the response and power of the car I guess its better than the 4age small port.

with my goals for the car a turbo setup would be not worth it. Im not looking to get 200 hp, Im looking to make my celica more fun to drive. I honestly much prefer NA power over turbo power, I built a 300zx twin turbo for a friend it is just over 300 hp and alot of fun to drive, however my last car had my favorite power delivery of any car Ive driven...b18c mild head work, type r camshafts, intake, exaust, flywheel/clutch it was only 195hp at the wheels but the engine was a joy to drive and a blast to rev right up in 3rd and 4th gear. Im hoping for a similar reward with my celica

[nik]

7afe has an economical head design compaired to the 4age head which is for racing. I used to drive an ae 92 with a small port 4age and in my opinion its better than the 7afe. however why not put a turbo on your 7afe and turn it to a 7afte? now I drive a ae112 with a 7afte and I love the response and power of the car I guess its better than the 4age small port.

with my goals for the car a turbo setup would be not worth it. Im not looking to get 200 hp, Im looking to make my celica more fun to drive. I honestly much prefer NA power over turbo power, I built a 300zx twin turbo for a friend it is just over 300 hp and alot of fun to drive, however my last car had my favorite power delivery of any car Ive driven...b18c mild head work, type r camshafts, intake, exaust, flywheel/clutch it was only 195hp at the wheels but the engine was a joy to drive and a blast to rev right up in 3rd and 4th gear. Im hoping for a similar reward with my celica

then if you want to stay A series family black top 20v 4age is your best beat but you'll still need to put more into it like cams maybe an ems to get the 200whp mark or the 3sge beams motor one of the best na options IMAO

[Kwanza26]

It's very hard to build a 200whp n/a toyota engine. Even modded Beams 3SGE's only make around 180whp without some aftermarket cams... Cams can hurt streetability. 2ZZGE's have reached 200whp... but it's not practical power cause the engine is small and usually located above 8000 rpms. A 20V will have a hard time seeing 200whp without being opened up for higher comp pistons and cams... not even mentioning the mandatory standalone ecu.

[nik]

It's very hard to build a 200whp n/a toyota engine. Even modded Beams 3SGE's only make around 180whp without some aftermarket cams... Cams can hurt streetability. 2ZZGE's have reached 200whp... but it's not practical power cause the engine is small and usually located above 8000 rpms. A 20V will have a hard time seeing 200whp without being opened up for higher comp pistons and cams... not even mentioning the mandatory standalone ecu.

this is where i like honda motors in N/A apps. like k series motor

[Kwanza26]

this is where i like honda motors in N/A apps. like k series motor

K series is King as far as n/a 4 bangers go. Even the F20C or F22C have nothing on the K series in the modded world. Nearly 200whp with just a CAI... what more could you ask for... hehe