7agte build diary, my progress so far Options

[nik]

Picture from inside TEAM 66


this is the bigport 4agze head before it went to the shop for a rebuild and stage2 p&p and other goodies


here you can see the intake mani, turbo mani, fuel rail, 4ag flange and the 8.0:1 pistons on the far left


here you can see my 38mm wastegate, Ecu, and the far left some stock 4agze 8.9:1 pistons with rods


close up of the manifold


close up of the wastegate and new pistons with rings (red box)


close up of the 4agze rods and pistons


this is probably the hardest thing to find a 3rd gen 4agze map ECU from a AE101 92+


for more just click the link up top

This post has been edited by nik: Mar 28, 2005 - 11:12 AM

[nik]

update

April 2 2005

went and bought a block with head off another memeber in Spokane for $50

April 4 2005

i got most of the block apart

[nik]

update
april 14 2005

i got the block all torn apart and took it to the shop to be cleaned and .05 bore along with the crank so it could preped ,and balanced with my 4agze pistons still waiting on rods

sold my turbo kit to a member on here so i'll have the money to finish my project mostly

This post has been edited by nik: Apr 14, 2005 - 12:34 PM

[playr158]

how much is the bore costing you?

and isn't that a b series manifold?
hows the fit against the head?

[nik]

how much is the bore costing you?

and isn't that a b series manifold?
hows the fit against the head?
[right][snapback]271278[/snapback][/right]

not much gotta love the hook ups

yeah its a b-series that i cut then one of the guys there welded to the flange after setting it on the head and taking measurements for clearance in the engine bay
i did the b-series because the holes line up about 95% to my 4ag exhaust flange i have a pic i'll have to post a bunch today.

[playr158]

oh gotcha used the pipes but cut them off and used a stock 4ag flange

i see even your exhaust manifold is hybrid hahaha

ewww hond parts in a yota ! ANARCHI

[nik]

oh gotcha used the pipes but cut them off and used a stock 4ag flange

i see even your exhaust manifold is hybrid hahaha

ewww hond parts in a yota ! ANARCHI
[right][snapback]271296[/snapback][/right]

not anarchy but Genius honda parts are cheaper than toyota parts and the manifold is Stainless steel with renforcement + its hard to find a 4age turbo manifold beside hks and jgtsool which are both log style manifolds. So as you sadi and hybrid manifold for a hybrid motor

[nik]

I'm going in today for an update on everything.

as for the turbo how about a t3 t4 hybrid for thr hybrid

i'm ordering the arp bolts mains studs rods etc today

the con rods crower said a 10 week wait on the custom ones
the shops owner said his contact had a set of 4340 cromoly rods for a good price so hopefully i can get those.

[nik]

update

my rod got sent out to have custom ones made i though they were going to send out the measurements so again sorry Doggy

I'm looking up to 8 weeks for rods

head is finished and the block is started
going to run into a few problems i have no cam card so timing will be a issue
it will get worked out on the dyno

[Mike431635]

Hey nik, how close are the runners on that B-series manifold to matching up with a 7AFE/4AFE head? I'm doing a 4AFTE, currently planning on using a Jgstools manifold, but would love to have a manifold like that. I know the 4AFE and 7AFE exhaust ports are the same size & location, so could you possibly check it against a 7AFE head for me?

[FallenHero]

the 7afe and 4age heads are remarkably similar. The spacing between the intake and exhaust on both engines are absolutely miniscule.

hey nik. I had my 4a and 7a heads side by side the other day... and was thinking: the 4ag exhaust valves are fairly small... I wonder what gains would be made by getting larger ones... like the 7afe intake valves for instance. Just throwing that out for discussion.(and yes, I know machining would be necessary)

Any news on those rod dimensions?

This post has been edited by FallenHero: May 1, 2005 - 11:05 PM

[Kwanza26]

The spacing between the B series manifold and 4AG/7AF heads will match up. The only issue is swapping flanges, and possibly doing something about the runners. The 4AG/7AF heads use round runners while the B series have oval runners. I can post pictures if needed... but the runners do line up enough to work.

[FallenHero]

The spacing between the B series manifold and 4AG/7AF heads will match up.  The only issue is swapping flanges, and possibly doing something about the runners.  The 4AG/7AF heads use round runners while the B series have oval runners.  I can post pictures if needed... but the runners do line up enough to work.
[right][snapback]281190[/snapback][/right]

you could have responded to my 4ag exhaust valve question.

[Kwanza26]

The spacing between the B series manifold and 4AG/7AF heads will match up.  The only issue is swapping flanges, and possibly doing something about the runners.  The 4AG/7AF heads use round runners while the B series have oval runners.  I can post pictures if needed... but the runners do line up enough to work.
[right][snapback]281190[/snapback][/right]

you could have responded to my 4ag exhaust valve question.
[right][snapback]281193[/snapback][/right]

Well... your question only asks for opinion. I don't like to state my opinion too much in fear people might take it literally.. ;]

IMO... exhaust isn't an area I would worry too much about. Intake perhaps... but exhaust, not really. I personally would try not to play with valves untill your engine reaches flat spots in the powerband, which relates to engine breathing. That could be quite a ways away with boost...

[nik]

on my manifold i had 2 options leave the oval part from the honda manifold or cut it off where it goes round and make little extensions off the 4ag flange.

[playr158]

i'm guessing cut it at round
and branch from the 4a/7a flange

[nik]

i'm guessing cut it at round
and branch from the 4a/7a flange
[right][snapback]281322[/snapback][/right]

yep

[nik]

update 5/2/05

ordered ACT 6 puck clutch today
droped off my crower cams 272 intake and 272 exhaust
need to get another ASP 18% Underdrive Crank Pulley

trying to sell my
AE101 harness and ecu + the greddy Profec E-01 and E-manager
so i can buy an SDS system

and the RODS should be in thrusday

[FallenHero]

I am using your thread nik.

So what is the biggest bore you guys have heard of on a 7afe. I've seen 82mm, but I wonder if you could take on to 83, or 84mm... in the grand scheme of things, that isn't much of a difference, but i wanted you guys' input.

[nik]

I am using your thread nik.

So what is the biggest bore you guys have heard of on a 7afe.  I've seen 82mm, but I wonder if you could take on to 83, or 84mm... in the grand scheme of things, that isn't much of a difference, but i wanted you guys' input.
[right][snapback]282387[/snapback][/right]

yeah edo's 82mm is as big of a bore that i've heard of. I read a post over on club4ag about bore size + rev limit and some other stuff

but anyways they were saying to take advantage of the bigger bore you would need higher rev i'll have to find the link it had some good info

here it is

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montj
Club4AG - Freshman


USA
11 Posts Posted - 04/29/2005 : 00:40:38
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ive seen 1mm-.5mm oversized pistons available.

is it for getting your cylinders bored to match the pistons? for a better seal


wolfman
Club4AG - Freshman



15 Posts Posted - 04/29/2005 : 02:38:42
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could be a lot of reasons. I'm in no way an expert, so someone else may correct me (or just a difference in oppinion). If you are trying to bump up power. Don't know if .5 mm will make that much a difference. If you're rebuilding and your cylinders are warped. Maybee like you said to get a better piston seal, which you're probably running bigger pistons in search of more power. hope this helped a little bit.


oldeskewltoy
Club4AG - The 24/7 Club


USA
4558 Posts Posted - 04/29/2005 : 06:14:52
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there can be two reasons for an overbore, 1) the cylinders are damaged and need to be overbored to acquire a clean honeable surface, 2) you are looking for more power and a overbore will increase displacement


Red
Club4AG - Lifetime Enthusiast



1365 Posts Posted - 04/29/2005 : 08:36:10
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And sometimes a third reason, if the cylinders are simply worn from old age. Maybe that counts as "damage"?

Original Owner, 85GTS 3-door 5speed. Will swap even for a Ford GT40 or GT44, or a Cadillac-Gage V100. (Which is nothing like a Cadillac.)

oldeskewltoy
Club4AG - The 24/7 Club


USA
4558 Posts Posted - 04/29/2005 : 14:29:34
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quote:
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And sometimes a third reason, if the cylinders are simply worn from old age. Maybe that counts as "damage"?





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Thats why I was as vague as I was... damage to cylinder walls encompasses wear, or damage....


DWLowe13
Club4AG - Addict


USA
297 Posts Posted - 04/29/2005 : 16:54:55
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Most of the time when I rebuild an engine, I overboar to get rid of imperfections in the cylinder wall.

In small blocks like the 4AGE, .5mm and 1mm is a very big differance. You do not want much more. Due to the thining of your cylinder walls. If you go over to much the walls become weak.

I do know of one shop on the east coast, Wayne and Earl Edge of Edge Bros Machine Shop in Jacksonville NC, that will over boar engines by 2mm-3mm. But they also install sleeves into the cylinder walls that reinforce the block.

Overboaring is a way to increase HP. But the risk is you make your block that much weaker and easier to crack under stress...

" If You Fail To Plan
You Plan To FAil "
DWLowe13

DWLowe13
Club4AG - Addict


USA
297 Posts Posted - 04/29/2005 : 17:01:16
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Here is some more info about Boring and sleeves, from the circle track world..

Seeking The Right Bore Jenckes found a possible advantage of using sleeves: They come with bigger bores. "Today, people find that particular bore and stroke combinations are very effective," he adds. "Typically, people are running bigger bores and they find that, no matter what the application, a bigger bore may be helpful. I'd certainly say that's the trend in Nextel Cup. Obviously, if you want to make a block last a long time, you can't go to the big bore size immediately. You'll get one rebuild, and then it's junk and you've just spent all this time building this nice block. A sleeve can allow you to go to your optimal bore size. When you have problems, just replace the sleeves.





Boring for cam bearings is a precision step in which modern engine builders rely on high-cost machinery. When building an engine, there's plenty of emphasis on the operator as well as the machine.

"Some teams in Nextel Cup use sleeves, and some don't. In Nextel Cup, the well is deep money wise, but it's not endless. Consider that you can use a smaller number of pistons and crankshafts, and that means less money tied up in crank and piston inventory. Some teams might approach it from that standpoint."

Power From Bore Center Bigger bores have proven to have better results in most cases. "A larger centerline is preferable because it allows you to have a bigger bore," says Jenckes. "A Ford block has an inherent handicap compared to a Chevrolet or the current Dodge because of the smaller centerline. Having more metal there, other than a weight handicap, means it's more stable and it can allow you to run a bigger bore.

"Most racing has some kind of displacement rule. As long as there's not a bore size rule, you're probably better off running a bigger bore, shorter stroke if engine speed is not limited. If you are limited in engine speed for some reason, say an rpm limit, then always going with a bigger bore may not be the way to go, depending on how low the speed is. At higher shaft speeds, bigger bore engines help the cylinder heads work better. In Nextel Cup, 4.185-inch is the biggest bore size you can have. Even if you have 5 inches between bore centers, it doesn't help you other than the fact you've got more metal there to be stable. Then you have to worry about the weight. The trend has been to bigger bore cylinders. GM is working on a new, next generation Nextel Cup engine with a bigger bore center.


" If You Fail To Plan
You Plan To FAil "
DWLowe13

montj
Club4AG - Freshman


USA
11 Posts Posted - 04/30/2005 : 01:48:17
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nice. Clears that up for me, thanks.


DWLowe13
Club4AG - Addict


USA
297 Posts Posted - 05/02/2005 : 15:43:39
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No Problem..

" If You Fail To Plan
You Plan To FAil "
DWLowe13

othick
Club4AG - Addict


USA
680 Posts Posted - 05/04/2005 : 01:56:23
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1mm overbore in a 4ag = approx 40cc's more displacement. A 1627cc 4ag will make about 2.5% more hp/tq than a standard 1587cc 4ag. Closed deck iron blocks can usually handle this no problem. The later 7rib 4ag's are bored out 2mm quite frequently.

85 gts coupe 105whp
91 civic si sohc vtec
http://www.whyturbothat.com for pics and dyno's of my old cars
- turbo del sol, turbo mr2, turbo ae86, 6cyl. 77 celica, 88 Mr2 SC





This post has been edited by nik: May 4, 2005 - 12:37 PM