DEATH's GT2 Progress [Updated 01-24-13], 6 years/60k? Miles and FCUKING RIDICULOUS!!! Options

[DEATH]

As the topic says my car wants to die on me. Actually before I get to the current problem I'll detail my 4 day weekend/Gremlin attacks:
1. [Thurs - day one of a promising 4 day weekend ] I should mention first that noone ever works on my car but me - but I've had it with opening the engine for at least a few months so: Got the intake cam set properly finally by a Toyota dealership for the cheapest price anyone quoted me! I went to Joe Myers Toyota as the last shop I was gonna try just for sh*ts and giggles and through some stroke of fate I got the coolest service manager ever. My budget was to be $200 tops with the work done in one day. First shop tells me all kinds of BS that I know isn't true about the 3S and he quoted 4 hours labor [$400] and 3day wait. I laughed and left there . After shopping around 4 different other shops the best price was $210 with same day service. As I already said I went to Toyota for the hell of it [and to pick up some oil filters for the oil change I was planning for Fri morning] and they looked it up and said it's 2.5hrs labor at $100 each so $250 - over budget so I was gonna try to talk the $210 guy down to $200 tax included. Then the service guy said "well if I charge you for a timing belt job it'll still be $250 but I can take the cost of the belt off since your belt is only 2mos old. So that took the price down to $180+tax - perfect. To make things even sweeter I got to request my old friend NachoNismo [Toyota Tech at JMT] and he and his team did a beautiful job on it and even gave me free diagnostics, trouble code print out and several other freebies [BTW only code showing was 42 - Speedsensor not giving the ECM a signal within 8sec after hard driving? Could this be the same problem that won't allow my speedo to work? GT Tranny BTW]. When I went to pay my bill I got another pleasant surpise - $150 including tax!
So I got invited to the TX2K8 [Annual North American Supra Meet] dinner and meet at Frank-N-Steins and went there:
2. [Friday night] Blew my turbo coupling [the first one attached to the compressor outlet] into tiny little shreds so had to limp home with no boost [not a fun way to spend a 45min drive with a grouchy GF, two sleeping teens in the back seat and a pissed off Mega Chihuahua on the back hatch cover at 2:30 in the morning]. Got home and fixed that but discovered the coolant return line from the Turbo was spraying coolant [evidenced by the pancakes smell of burning off Toyota For Life Coolant]. Put a clamp on that and refilled the coolant with another $10 worth of coolant. So I need to take my GF to a Fetish Ball [Not like I wanted to go or anything ] clear on the other side of Houston about an hour away:
3. [Sat Night] So I get all the Gremlins slayed and start the car with the hood open, observing all the fixed problems and the gauges until the car warms up. So I back out of the garage and turn the lights on and Bam! - the car trys to die and generally runs like sh*t. Turn off the lights and idle returns to normal. Hit the brakes and the idle again drops and the engine runs like sh*t. And here's the real slap to the face - roll down the window and the car wants to die! So the GF is pissed again cause she's been looking forward to this for 3 months. Luckily for her Havok and his lady are going anyway so they offer to drive us and drop us off later [Thanks again Bro!] and we go to the FB and altho I usually enjoy myself immensly at these things my mind is with the car back in the garage and I ate something bad and felt like puking [almost did several times actually - Dry heaving FTL ]
4. [Sun] Woke up at 5PM with absolutely no energy and no drive to work on the car

So after that long dissertation I'd like to thank this guy for the very interesting weekend:

Fcukin asshats always playing games under my hood

Now to my questions [Alltracman - help me out buddy]:
1. WTF is up with that code 42 and what should I check to get it diagnosed and fixed up and hopefully finally have a working speedo?
2. WTF is up with that electronics gremlin that makes any powered accessory cause the idle to drop and almost die? My first thought is bad ground connections - sound plausible? Ideas, theories or [hopefully] past experience?
3. Why can't I just go a whole week without something fcuking up on this car? Damn I miss my trustworthy, never fails to start and run like God designed it 5S.

Now this my friends and potential swap owners is why you have no business owning a car that you yourself did not swap [or like in my case - have already swapped a Celica in the past and felt like skipping the initial headache portion of the process]. If you don't know the 3S-GTE and all you've ever owned was a 5S or 7A - don't even consider having someone else swap your car - the experience and famliarity with the engine you will gain by swapping it yourself or with some friends is priceless. Seriously.

This post has been edited by DEATH: Jan 31, 2017 - 8:23 PM

[presure2]

i would say the power problem is one of 2 things.
bad grounds, or bad alternator.
for the code, make sure the speed sensor is plugged in, its at the back of the tranny, on top. for me the easiest way to get to it is to get the car nice and high (on jackstands of course!)and reach up from behind the tranny. if its plugged in, its a problem with the wiring (did it ever work?) or the speed sensor is bad.

did ya buy the car already swapped? (thats what it sounds like by your post) if so, i feel ya, supershannon77 is and has been going thru the same types of issues, just on a larger scale..aka tranny locks up dead, ect..lol)
i couldnt agree more with the last 2 sentences of your post.

[DEATH]

Yeah I bought Chanh's old car but as I said I have swapped a 4th gen before so I am pretty familiar with the problems that come with the power. That's why I figured this time I would skip the initial headache phase - bad mistake. I don't believe the speedo ever worked as I have seen threads from both of the previous owners trying to work that out with no success. I already checked and the plug for the speed sensor and it is indeed plugged in. Any thoughts on how to make a jumper harness to take the place of the swap wires or maybe how to check the wiring using a multimeter?
I believe I will run all new grounds to the engine tonight as I already checked and the alt is working great with the lights/etc off [13v at idle to 14v under load]. Anybody can hook me up with a diagram of the location of the stock grounds on an ST-185?

[presure2]

Yeah I bought Chanh's old car but as I said I have swapped a 4th gen before so I am pretty familiar with the problems that come with the power. That's why I figured this time I would skip the initial headache phase - bad mistake. I don't believe the speedo ever worked as I have seen threads from both of the previous owners trying to work that out with no success. I already checked and the plug for the speed sensor and it is indeed plugged in. Any thoughts on how to make a jumper harness to take the place of the swap wires or maybe how to check the wiring using a multimeter?
I believe I will run all new grounds to the engine tonight as I already checked and the alt is working great with the lights/etc off [13v at idle to 14v under load]. Anybody can hook me up with a diagram of the location of the stock grounds on an ST-185?

there should be 3 grounds.
a thick one from the top of the tranny, to a spliced wire that goes to both the negative battery cable, and the drivers side corner of the radiator support.
a thinner one that goes from a bolt that goes thru the tranny into the engine to the drivers side strut tower.
and one that goes from the top of the alternator bracket, to the passanger side strut tower.
celicatech has the BGB, you can prolly use that, print out the pages you need to find the testing procedure for the speedo sensor stuff.

[DEATH]

Thanks so much Pressure. I can't get anything from Celicatech tho cause it asks you like a hundred personal questions just to register over there and I don't feel comfortable giving out that much info online.
Griffgirl - can you e-mail this to me?

[lagos]

Thanks so much Pressure. I can't get anything from Celicatech tho cause it asks you like a hundred personal questions just to register over there and I don't feel comfortable giving out that much info online.
Griffgirl - can you e-mail this to me?

Err... ummm... what personal questions were you asked? all you have to provide is your email address, login name and password that you want.

[lagos]

Now this my friends and potential swap owners is why you have no business owning a car that you yourself did not swap [or like in my case - have already swapped a Celica in the past and felt like skipping the initial headache portion of the process]. If you don't know the 3S-GTE and all you've ever owned was a 5S or 7A - don't even consider having someone else swap your car - the experience and famliarity with the engine you will gain by swapping it yourself or with some friends is priceless. Seriously.

^ truth.

As far as your speedo issue....
You have one of the OLD harness jobs done by qatar11. He didnt wire up the speedo correctly and thats why the ecu is throwing the code and the speedo is not working. Its a simple fix with about 3-4 wires that need to be changed around. Look up the wiring diagrams and compare them with your harness.

As far as your other electrical issues... check your grounds. If those check out, then have your battery and alternator tested.

[politicsareevil]

Matt..... end this all once and for all..... send that harness to tweak. Get in line fool. I've known you for a while and I know you dont like letting other people work on that beast but I would send it to him and finish off ALL electrical problems. Its nice to know that when you get it back from him it will be perfect.


- Matt

[alltracman78]

Speedo first.

Assuming the connection and wiring at the sensor is ok, the problem is most likely at the engine harness to dash harness connectors. There's 2 of them, near the ECU connectors [if you can't find them, follow the harness].
There are 3 wires for the speed sensor [these are what Lagos was referring to].
2 Go through one connector, 1 goes through the other. I don't remember which is which.
Like Lagos also said, there's not much info required to sign up on Celicatech and access the BGBs. This will give you the exact location of the wires in question.

To test the sensor, 12V to one wire [red/blue stripe?], ground to one wire, and your going to check for voltage at the third wire. Put the multimeter ground on the ground wire.
Spin the sensor and see if you have voltage. If so, sensor works.



Power issue.

This started right after the coolant spraying, correct?
Most likely that caused a problem in the alt. Did it get any coolant on it?
The problem could also be in the engine fusebox, or potentially anywhere the coolant got on wiring/sensors.

Easy way to confirm if it's the alt, remove the acc belt, start the car and see if the headlights kill it. To further isolate disconnect both connectors on the alt.
If not, most likely the alt is damaged, though there is a small possibility of something else causing it [welcome to electronics ].
If it still dies, it's not the alt, and it's something else. I would start with the fuse box [only if it got sprayed, if not, head to the most complex thing that did get sprayed].

It is also possible you had an underlying problem that surfaced [or was magnified] by the coolant.
There's nothing wrong with checking and improving your grounds regardless, that is a win/win job.

Manny hit the stock locations perfectly.
They don't have to be in those exact locations though, what you NEED is a ground from the starter to the battery [heavy gauge wire], ground from the battery to the chassis, from the trans to the chassis and from the engine to the chassis, preferably by the alt.
I improved mine years ago, and added one from the head to the trans.
Make sure you check the condition of the connections [corrosion, ect].
I used gold plated ring terminals to slow corrosion and 8 gauge wire.

[Havok1997GT]

Luckily for her Havok and his lady are going anyway so they offer to drive us and drop us off later [Thanks again Bro!]


Anytime dude. Anything i can do to help out let me know

[DEATH]

Thanks Pressure, Lagos and Alltracman.
1. Celicatech's sign up form is two pages and it asks for address, full name, daytime phone number, nighttime [cell] phone number and all kinds of other weird questions that just don't agree with me. IDK. Maybe I'll start one over there anyway. I've never heard of anybody having any problems.
2. As for the old harness from qatar11 - that became abundantly clear as soon as I started ripping into this car. I've already dealt with these harness problems once before when I was helping another member finish his swap back in '04. Thanks for the name - I couldn't remember who it was. I'll search for it here to get a heads up on any other potential swap problems. I remember everybody getting pissed about him back in the day. Weren't they referred to as the infamous "red wires" [as in red loom?]? Thanks to Lagos and Alltracman on this one - I think I can figure out the wiring using the multimeter now that I know that's probably the problem. I'll use that method to check the sensor as well. Anybody got a trick to spinning the sensor or do I just need to hook the multimeter up out the hood and thru the front window on a closed street and look for voltage?
3. I agree with the making extra/good grounds thing. I called around last night to see if anybody had the Apex'I ground kit in stock [I know it's overkill but I figured I might as well do it right the first time]. I'll get some more brass connectors and wire on the way home tonight [will be light out and the car will run fine]. I don't believe it's likely the coolant as it only sprayed near the water neck on the RH side of the motor near the Turbo and wasn't a big wash down by any means - more like the little leaks around your garden hose when you first tighten it on by hand and nowhere near the Alt anyway [I'll still check it tho]. I need to check the stock ground near the alt as it's possible Toyota took it off to do the timing belt and forgot to put it back. So for grounds I need:
-Block to chasis
-Tranny to chasis
-Head [near alt] to chasis
-head/block to tranny
Any other good places to put the last one on the eventual Apex'I setup [just gonna do a homemade job in the meantime]?

[6strngs]

get a multimeter and put the positive end on the negative battery post and the negative end at any of your grounds. you should see less than 0.1V. if you see more, clean the ground up and put it back and try again. That's definately my first thought on it. Especially check where the ECM grounds to and clean that one.

[DEATH]

Will do. Thanks alot.
Anything else guys? I'm gonna start this at 5pm so gathering all the possible info I can before then.
BTW - Any Houston guys got a few hours to kill tonight?

[phattyduck]

The electrical load issue might also be the "ELS" connection to the ECU. It tells the ECU when you are using the headlights, rear defroster, etc... but it shouldn't make a huge difference. Go look for grounds and other wiring problems first.

(on my 3rd gen motor, the ELS connection changes the idle from 700rpm up to 750 to deal with the extra load)

-Charlie

[presure2]

Thanks Pressure, Lagos and Alltracman.
1. Celicatech's sign up form is two pages and it asks for address, full name, daytime phone number, nighttime [cell] phone number and all kinds of other weird questions that just don't agree with me. IDK. Maybe I'll start one over there anyway. I've never heard of anybody having any problems.
2. As for the old harness from qatar11 - that became abundantly clear as soon as I started ripping into this car. I've already dealt with these harness problems once before when I was helping another member finish his swap back in '04. Thanks for the name - I couldn't remember who it was. I'll search for it here to get a heads up on any other potential swap problems. I remember everybody getting pissed about him back in the day. Weren't they referred to as the infamous "red wires" [as in red loom?]? Thanks to Lagos and Alltracman on this one - I think I can figure out the wiring using the multimeter now that I know that's probably the problem. I'll use that method to check the sensor as well. Anybody got a trick to spinning the sensor or do I just need to hook the multimeter up out the hood and thru the front window on a closed street and look for voltage?
3. I agree with the making extra/good grounds thing. I called around last night to see if anybody had the Apex'I ground kit in stock [I know it's overkill but I figured I might as well do it right the first time]. I'll get some more brass connectors and wire on the way home tonight [will be light out and the car will run fine]. I don't believe it's likely the coolant as it only sprayed near the water neck on the RH side of the motor near the Turbo and wasn't a big wash down by any means - more like the little leaks around your garden hose when you first tighten it on by hand and nowhere near the Alt anyway [I'll still check it tho]. I need to check the stock ground near the alt as it's possible Toyota took it off to do the timing belt and forgot to put it back. So for grounds I need:
-Block to chasis
-Tranny to chasis
-Head [near alt] to chasis
-head/block to tranny
Any other good places to put the last one on the eventual Apex'I setup [just gonna do a homemade job in the meantime]?

just hit up your local autozone or whatever, they sell pre made ground wires, just like stock, for 3-4$ ea.

[DEATH]

Yeah - that's what I planned to do [since I can't get the Apex'I setup in time]. I'll buy 3 or so and ground the hell out of it. The places I posted above sound good?
-Block to chasis
-Tranny to chasis
-Head [near alt] to chasis
-head/block to tranny

[GriffGirl]

Check your email, it's on its way.

I'll burn that damn disc for you too and get it out in tomorrow's mail so you can have EVERYTHING at once. Gauge face will have to wait.

This post has been edited by GriffGirl: Mar 25, 2008 - 7:29 PM

[DEATH]

nvm
double post

This post has been edited by DEATH: Mar 25, 2008 - 9:46 PM

[DEATH]

You fcukin rock. I love this site
Got the parts and it's starting to cool off in my garage - I'm gonna eat and then do it in a min [print that stuff too].
I got 3 of them 4ga. I'm gonna run the first one from the alt to the chasis [pass side obviously].

Speedo first.

Assuming the connection and wiring at the sensor is ok, the problem is most likely at the engine harness to dash harness connectors. There's 2 of them, near the ECU connectors [if you can't find them, follow the harness].
There are 3 wires for the speed sensor [these are what Lagos was referring to].
2 Go through one connector, 1 goes through the other. I don't remember which is which.
Like Lagos also said, there's not much info required to sign up on Celicatech and access the BGBs. This will give you the exact location of the wires in question.
To test the sensor, 12V to one wire [red/blue stripe?], ground to one wire, and your going to check for voltage at the third wire. Put the multimeter ground on the ground wire.
Spin the sensor and see if you have voltage. If so, sensor works.

I meant to ask you - did code 42 come up as a speedsensor something or other?

This post has been edited by DEATH: Mar 25, 2008 - 9:46 PM

[Havok1997GT]

good luck man. Hope everything works. (Knock on glass)