4a-gze swap, need to clear some things up Options

[DustyBurns30]

i did a search and have been trying to find info on what goes wrong when people try to swap a 4a engine into their celi's. it said in the feasible swap sticky that there is some problem when you use the 4a tranny and then i read about something going wrong with the power steering pump. does anyone know what exactly the problem is? coomer and mynzeyes, you guys are the ones with the experience, i'm particularly interested in your input.

btw, i know this topic has been discussed a lot, but there is no real clear cut info on it, so if anyone knows where i can find some please let me know.

thanks

[3FingersCelica]

From what I've read a major problem is the uncertainty of the wiring. Its hard to come by a good wiring diagram. Some custom work needs to be done for power steering, radiator and a few other things.

[DustyBurns30]

if i got a front clip would that make the difference? then i could use the power steering pump and radiator from the clip correct?

thanks

[3FingersCelica]

I'm not sure if the radiator or power steering would be compatable. You should be able to use the ones from your celi, but the hoses will need to be custom made. I'm not sure though coomer would be the best to talk to cuz I'm sure his 4age would be similar.

[toyotaspeed_90]

his 4age could be quite different on the water routing.... "custom" radiator hoses aren't a problem.... just go to the store with a wire hanger in the shape you need... find one similar and cut it to fit.... done

the problem with the 4a-g(z)e motors on PS is that on 4/7a-fe motors the PS pump is on intake side, and on 4a-g(z)e it's on exhaust side.... especially on the 4a-gze since the s/c takes up most of the intake side...

if you got a 1/2 cut then you would have the wiring needed (although, the 4a-gze wiring is only like 2 sensors away from a 4a-ge harness... and my 4a-fe harness was only a couple wire lengths from a 4a-ge harness... so they're similar).....

as far as the tranny not bolting up... i'm not 100% sure... the latermodel FWD 4a-gze trannies (from japan) is an e51 and uses a shorter back mount (according to devin at alloutracing.netfirms.com)... BUT, the c52 tranny you have will bolt up to a 4a-gze... it's what an mr2 came with...

[Kwanza26]

You can just either PS pump so long as you custom run the proper lines I believe. Depending on which motor you have... the C52 might not fit. It will fit the older AFM 4AGZ's but probably not the later higher comp map versions. I believe those have slightly larger flywheels (220mm I believe as opposed to 212mm) and might not line up correctly with the C52... hence the tranny change in the late model AE92 and AE101. It's also a known problem with the T50 tranny in the AE86's case (with the tranny and housings not lining up). Most people just ditch the PS... although it's a pain in the arse... it's the easy way out. The way I'd do it... use the one from the 4AGZ and run custom lines. Should work...

[DustyBurns30]

is there any way around using my stock tranny, cause it's about 170k old and the syncros are starting to go. would i have to custom make a motor mount or bracket or something?

btw, thanks everybody for this great info your giving me so far. i really appreciate it.

edit: i would like to get the newest 4a-gze i can, depending on if i can use a 4a tranny or not.

This post has been edited by DustyBurns30: Mar 5, 2004 - 3:37 AM

[Kwanza26]

To add a bit more... you can swap flywheels. I believe if you use a 212mm flywheel (7AFE, Redtop 4AGE, 20V 4AGE) etc... it should fit and work correctly with the correctly sized clutch. They all used the same flywheel bolt pattern, which is 8 bolts (nearly every single A series motor)... however, the only reason not to use the C52 tranny is that it's not as tough as the e51. You'll probably want to either swap flywheels in order to use the C52, or custom build the tranny mount for the e51. Either-or should work. Even better... find yourself a C56 (blacktop 6 speed) and go to town... 4AG trannies typically are pretty cheap... and they are nearly identical to the 7AFE c52.

This post has been edited by Kwanza26: Mar 5, 2004 - 8:10 PM

[toyotaspeed_90]

um... the c52 is good for around 200hp.... so it will be fine..... if you want another c52 tranny don't get a celica or ae102 corolla tranny... find an ae92 gts (corolla) with the c52... it has a better final drive....

the tranny mounts for an e51 don't need to be custom made or anything... one i believe is slightly different but can be made to work..

check here... it's into an ae92... but a celica ST is pretty much the same:
http://soniccreation.com/how_to_make_a_crayon_streak.htm

and yes.... the 4a-ge's all use an 8 bolt pattern flywheel (4/7a-fe's DO NOT however... they use a 6 bolt)... you can use an ae86 or early model ae92 flywheel (which is what i'm doing on my smallport 4a-ge) w/o any problems and use the smaller clutch/pressure plate

[Kwanza26]

[DustyBurns30]

will i have any problems with axle length of the stock 4a's, or should i use my 7a axles.

now for my dumbest questions of the thread (brace yourself):
will the e51 tranny come with an ae101 or ae92 clip?
- is there a site that lists basic specs of the different 4a engine/tranny combos? i looked at club4a but i didn't find anything. (google will be the next stop)
- i'm not looking to go cheap but with the list of parts i want to get i would like to save money where i can.

do you guys recomend a limited slip?
- my guess is that i don't have to worry too much about it unless i get over
200hp.

thanks

[Kwanza26]

[DustyBurns30]

sweet, thanks for the info.

moderators, can we make this a sticky? this is the best info i have read about this swap and i'm sure this will help many people in there quest for a 4a. thanks again to kwanza, toyotaspeed, and 3fingers.

one last question though, do all the 4a-gze's use pretty much the same parts as far as stock replacement? what i mean is can i go to any parts store and find the little odds and ends that can't be replaced with performance parts or will i have to special order jdm parts?

thanks again.

[toyotaspeed_90]

yes..... they all use the same parts (except for some of the internals... but parts from an earlier mr2 4a-gze will work.... like pistons & whatnot).... if you use the map setup some of the electronics may be a little different... but again, same as the internals.....

[qatar11]

Coomer, John and Ryan have the mechanical part done and im hacking through the wiring

[toyotaspeed_90]

[qatar11]

[Mynzeyes]

seeing as how i'm using the tranny out of the clip, that the GZE is meant to use:
the AE92 axles that came with my clip did NOT fit. the longer, passenger side axle was correct, but for the driver's side, i had to send the clip axle off to RAXLES.com to get it extended a little over an inch. Also, with the beefier GZE axles, i had to grind down on the crossmembers just a little (not enough to compromise strength). also, as far as the motor "dropping right in", that is not the case. the driver/passenger/front tranny mount all will bolt right in, using both clip and celica mounts (you have to change out certain parts), however, the rear mount (near the firewall) i could not get to mount correctly. i had to drill out the crossmember, and bolt it in on my own.
As for the power steering. i have adapted the 2 lines to each other, but it is still a matter of whether my method will work or not, i will tell how i did it only if it works, as i'm not going to tell you the WRONG way to do it. .
the radiator. i used the stock celica radiator, plugged up some spots at the bottom that the GZE did not utilitze, and got a hose that fit from autozone....

[Mynzeyes]

[DustyBurns30]

mynzeyes, did you use the 7a-fe wiring harness or the 4a-gze, or a combination harness? is it possible to use the 4a harness and just extend the wires and adapt it at the gauge cluster, or do you have to adapt the 7a harness to the 4a engine and ecu?