want 3s-gte motor Options

[blaque_6thGen]

Hey, guys. Right now I have a 1997 ST with 7a-fe, auto transmission. I want to do a complete conversion to a 3s-gte, manual transmission. I was wondering if anyone has a 3s-gte motor that they are trying to sell or if they know of a place that i can get one. Thanks guys!

This post has been edited by blaque_6thGen: Feb 8, 2005 - 2:05 PM

[3sgtegts]

There are some who sell them.
If you go to Buy/Sell section.
I bought mine from

naganojapanese.com

[Supersprynt]

I know this place, its called the Search Button, he helps out alot.

And yes, I kno im being an ass, but your not a newb you should know.

[easternpiro1]

I know im a rookie, but ive heard that if you want to get a 3sgte, u need a FRONT CLIP...FRONT CLIP FRONT CLIP! and then its new motor mounts, wiring problems and a bunch of crap. Ive been told a lot of different things a guy told me to just go with a 4agze so i wouldnt have to worry about switching trannys and stuff. I dont know....adn if u want a 3sgte, go to ebay motors and type it in. i saw one for like 800 bucks... but it might be shady....

[Supersprynt]

Whoever told you to "just go 4agze" doesnt kno wtf they're talking about I suggest never taking advice from him again.

[lagos]

http://www.geocities.com/zegoat2000/THESWAP.html
3sgte SWAP INTO 6TH GEN CELICA ST

[ghostdog]

blaque_6thGen, please don't cross post from now on. your identical topic in buying/selling has been deleted

[blaque_6thGen]

hey, sorry about the cross-post, gh0st_d0g. i just didn't know if it would be ok for me to post that i was in the market in a part of the forum that isn't about buying and selling.

By the way, i think i want an actual 3s-gte. i really like the setup that lagos has.

[Mr2swift]

Whoever told you to "just go 4agze" doesnt kno wtf they're talking about I suggest never taking advice from him again.
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I have told a few people to go the 4agze route as it is a BOLT ON for the St model owners and they also do not have to modify the tranny to get it to work. Not to mention the trans has Lsd. In addition the 4agze can be easily modified and is reasonably priced. I would love to run my 4agze against your 3sgte, or better yet, lets see your dyno plots and I will show you mine and then compare the price of the swap. I'm quite confident with the ability of the 4agze and the real beauty is the st owers can also go 7agze or 7agte in the blink of an eye.

Finally, you should not use such language or make comments if you are not 100% for sure that you know what you are talking about.

Ron

[Supersprynt]

Ok Ron, who did your swap? Do you have pictures of your swap?

Also: do you OWN a 6th gen? Or are you trying to sell a 4agze engine, This swap has been done, maybe a couple times in 6th gen Celicas? Your talking about "ease of getting your car going" but you've failed to mention that the wiring is very not easy, not well documented (or ever) and this completely eliminates that "ease" of having bolt on parts.

If your trying to sell your 4agze's to people because they are bolt on your not telling them the entire story, perhaps because your just trying to make money, I'm not sure. But the statement "just go 4agze" like its nothing, thats not knowing what your talking about. So dont come at me, someone whose been around for quite some time, knows quite a bit about this car, and tell me I dont kno what im talking about. I will definately post up some plots for you and everyone else to enjoy. I'm currently running about 200 to the wheels, untuned. You've said before the 4agze can handle 250 "properly tuned" reliablly. This is horsepiss for the 3sgte, where it has handled double that reliably.

Do not come into a forum, giving 1/2 truths so you can sell some engines. If you have a 6th gen, and have done a 4agze swap to that, then you will get your dues but I havent seen any sharing of information on a swap that people are starting to gain interest in.

This post has been edited by Supersprynt: Feb 8, 2005 - 3:46 PM

[jgreening]

Ok Ron, who did your swap? Do you have pictures of your swap?

Also: do you OWN a 6th gen? Or are you trying to sell a 4agze engine, This swap has been done, maybe a couple times in 6th gen Celicas? Your talking about "ease of getting your car going" but you've failed to mention that the wiring is very not easy, not well documented (or ever) and this completely eliminates that "ease" of having bolt on parts.

If your trying to sell your 4agze's to people because they are bolt on your not telling them the entire story, perhaps because your just trying to make money, I'm not sure. But the statement "just go 4agze" like its nothing, thats not knowing what your talking about. So dont come at me, someone whose been around for quite some time, knows quite a bit about this car, and tell me I dont kno what im talking about. I will definately post up some plots for you and everyone else to enjoy. I'm currently running about 200 to the wheels, untuned. You've said before the 4agze can handle 250 "properly tuned" reliablly. This is horsepiss for the 3sgte, where it has handled double that reliably.

Do not come into a forum, giving 1/2 truths so you can sell some engines. If you have a 6th gen, and have done a 4agze swap to that, then you will get your dues but I havent seen any sharing of information on a swap that people are starting to gain interest in.

whoa big fella. There is room here to disagree about what is "best" for st owners. Also, Ron is a well respected engine importer (almost an oxymoron these days) - just go look at his feedback on the mr2 board. Having someone like him post on our board is only a benefit. If you disagree with what he says, post a reply.

As for the wiring, just because it hasn't been done yet, doesn't mean its any more difficult than the 3s wiring. Matching wiring if you know what each pin is for is not rocket science. Also, if you don't want to study the diagrams and learn, there are dozens of places that will do it for $200-$500.

[ghostdog]

whoa big fella.  There is room here to disagree about what is "best" for st owners.  Also, Ron is a well respected engine importer (almost an oxymoron these days) - just go look at his feedback on the mr2 board.  Having someone like him post on our board is only a benefit.  If you disagree with what he says, post a reply. 

As for the wiring, just because it hasn't been done yet, doesn't mean its any more difficult than the 3s wiring.  Matching wiring if you know what each pin is for is not rocket science.  Also, if you don't want to study the diagrams and learn, there are dozens of places that will do it for $200-$500.
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I believe the issue is nobody has been able to find the apropriate wiring diagrams for imported 4agze engines. thats why John (mynzeyes) went back to his 7a and FAQdaWorld has yet to complete his swap. Ron may very well be a standup guy with imense knowledge on the 4agze but the fact remains until we find the wiring diagrams for the different jdm gz's this swap can't be recommended.

[Jdog1385]

yea ill be buying my 3sgte from ron this spring. he knows his stuff.

[blaque_6thGen]

I have told a few people to go the 4agze route as it is a BOLT ON for the St model owners and they also do not have to modify the tranny to get it to work. Not to mention the trans has Lsd.
[/quote]

i plan to switch out the tranny anyway, is it still worth the difference?

and another question...ron, you also sell 3s-gte?

This post has been edited by blaque_6thGen: Feb 8, 2005 - 7:02 PM

[Supersprynt]

Maybe I should make myself more clear. I'm not attacking Ron's business or integrity or anything like that. I'm sure Ron your a great guy with a great business. What I'm saying stems from the statement which could have been misinterpreted from Blaque when he said "just throw a 4agze in" like it was nothing. My point is that the 4agze and the 6gc are a combination not well documented and only recently talked about. Advising someone to go the 4agze route simply due to its bolt on application, in my opinion, is not beneficial towards the swapper, especially someone new to it.

I'm not against it, I'm not against 4agzes at all - my problem was simply that 1/2 of the process was address, the mechanical. Just because its bolt-on, doesnt make it a better idea or an easier idea than a 3s, in fact the reason the 3s is a more common engine swap is because of its been done and because its been written down.

And thats it I dont want this getting more personal when its unnecessary.

Blaque, if your going to swap out the tranny (which is necessary on a 3s into ST) then thats 1/2 the work in the ST conversion. The other is motor mounts which you will need to get from a GT. After that its about the same as a GT swap. The wiring will be a little different.

This post has been edited by Supersprynt: Feb 8, 2005 - 8:42 PM

[Mr2swift]

Well for starters I did not try and sell anyone in this thread anything. In fact, I have not had a 4agze front clip in stock for sometime now. I have had a few ask if I had it available but I have not had any in for sometime so when you say I am here to make a sell is very misleading. In fact, I have had probably 5 times more 3sgte front and rear clips then 4agze front and rear clips.

As for wiring, you are going to rewire NO MATTER WHAT you swap into your celica unless its a replacement engine. With that said, 2nd gen 3sgte's will have a different wire scheme then a 3rd gen 3sgte. In fact, unless you get a 3rd gen 3sgte, then your wiring will be noticably different on a 6th gen Celica.

There are schematics at several different web pages for the 4agze. You can get them from club 4ag, Mr2 message boards, and heck I have a diagram as well so I am a bit confused when you say there are no diagrams.

I have no quarell, but when you said whoever told you to go 4agze doesn't know wtf they are talking about and to get advise from someone else leads me to believe you might not know what you are talking about and therfore you are negating options for the St owners.

Here is a quick break down for the St owners as I know it. If you are going to go with a 3sgte, the 7afe transmission is questionable in my opinion. Jumping about 100ftlbs+ torque might not last to long. Now I want to stress that it is up to the driver as you can pound the heck out of the stock trans with the stock motor and blow it and therfore you will be that much closer to failure on a higher output engine like the 3sgte so if you choose to keep your stock 7a trans just take it easy and you might never have any problems. With that said, I believe the consensus is to get the Lsd trans from an Mr2. Okay, well that is an additional 600-1k dollars added to the project not to mention you have to modify the shifter linkage because the Mr2 shifter linkage is on the opposite side. So now your 2500 dollar 3sgte project has just jumped to 3500 and we have not tackled parts to freshen your engine up. The 4agze is from a Corolla which is front engine mounted and therefor shifter linkage modification is non existant AND it comes with the front clip. Ease of bolting your engine and drivetrain up is the most important aspect all future swap owners should be looking for as you are going to rewire regardless. So to me, modification and or fabrication is what most novices like us are trying to avoid.

If ones budget could not suffice a 3sgte then the 4agze is readily available for about 1k less after its all said and done. Its obvious the 3sgte has more potential for bigger hp numbers but not everyone likes turbo. Some people like s/ced cars and some people like to be different then you. With that said the 4agze/7agze option is a cheaper way to get toyota OEM forced induced power and if you want to modify the 4agze it is well equipped to handle it as long as you tune it properly if you are pushing ample ponies.

Finally, you will rewire a 2nd gen 3sgte, 3rd gen 3sgte, 4age, and 4agze. The same number of wires will have to be interfaced with your existing efi to get it to start no matter what swap you choose. The beauty of Toyota is when you open up the Jdm ecu's EVERY SINGLE PIN IS MARKED! That means if you have a diagram of your ecu pinouts it makes interfacing that much easier. Not here to give you a hard time or to make a sell, as I am a Toyota enthusist who has and will always give back to the Toyota community and I love to talk Toyota swaps and just Toyota talk, don't you?

Ron (951) 283-3778
Motors Unlimited

[blaque_6thGen]

hey, thanks guys. In the midst of what seems like your bickering, i'm learning a lot. Despite the fact that i think that both of you have great arguments, I still think that I want to go with the 3s for quality of reputation and hp. I'm not afraid to sacrifice the compromise (som extra dinero) to make this car be what it could potentially be. The 3s-gte is an originall from the celica (just a GT-4) and thats kinda how I imagined it...plus, I like the turbo.

On that thought, I hear that there is a now turbo in the process of being designed for the 3s. With the oppotunities that the 3s presents me it seems to be the better choice although, if I didn't have the income (my job pays me well) the 4a sounds like the top choice for my dollar. I just don't want to regret anything after I bought and installed an engine and found out that if i waited another two months I could have gotten a "better" one.

[Supersprynt]

Well theres always been upgrades to the stock turbo, however the exhaust housing on the ct26 limits its abilities. Only recently has ATS designed the "CT27" with a ported exhaust housing, for numbers around 300 at the wheels. The CT27 is often compared to the CT20b and the usual statement about this is that the CT27 is better for higher flow and top end power but is slower on the spool. There is a company now designing a bolt on Garrett turbo which should yield results in the 400hp-whp range.

[Mr2swift]

hey,  thanks guys. In the midst of what seems like your bickering, i'm learning a lot. Despite the fact that i think that both of you have great arguments, I still think that I want to go with the 3s for quality of reputation and hp.  I'm not afraid to sacrifice the compromise (som extra dinero) to make this car be what it could potentially be. The 3s-gte is an originall from the celica (just a GT-4) and thats kinda how I imagined it...plus, I like the turbo. 

On that thought, I hear that there is a now turbo in the process of being designed for the 3s. With the oppotunities that the 3s presents me it seems to be the better choice although, if I didn't have the income (my job pays me well) the 4a sounds like the top choice for my dollar.  I just don't want to regret anything after I bought and installed an engine and found out that if i waited another two months I could have gotten a "better" one.
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3sgte will yeild the greater gains for certain. Here is something everyone should know about the 2nd gen 3sgte from the Celica. It is now very hard to bring in a good conition 2nd gen Celica. There are more 2nd gen Mr2's available which gives one a better chance of getting a 2nd gen 3sgte in better shape. But the bottom line is you are looking at an engine that almost NEVER will come into the states on stock boost. MOST 3sgte's in the Celica have ran more then stock boost and are now 12-15 years old. Folks, that equals not alot of Prestine 2nd gen Celicas going around and from what I have seen ALOT of Celica clips and engines coming in from the states are just beat to crap physically. Now that does not meant it will not have good compression, but it is wise to completely recondition the 2nd gen 3sgte from the Celica. It is very possible to come across a low mileage clean one, but they are becoming harder and harder to bring in in this fashion.

Ae101 4agze's are made from 92-96 and interesting enough most will come in on stock boost as most have not overspin the blower resulting in the condition of the engine not run as hard as the boosted 3sgte. This is a fact folks and I would love to debate it if anyone wishes to. Bottom line in my opinion is either go 3rd gen 3sgte or deal with a reputable importer if they offer you a 2nd gen 3sgte as it is hard to find them in good shape. Remember, drifting and road racing is the norm in Japan and therefor Celicas get road raced pretty good.

Ron

If I get a 2nd gen 3sgte in desirable shape I will let the list know.

Thanks

[blaque_6thGen]

ok, those sound like good points. but another question...

Are there any 6th generation st205 3s-gte engines available? Why does it seem that the engine swaps all come from much older cars?