V6 engine swap, SCC did a V6 in a MR2, why not celica Options

[GeEkBoY]

In the april 2003 issue of Sport Compact Car, they did a V6 swap into an MR2 turbo with a melted piston (see page 199). They shoehorned in a 1MZ-FE 3 liter from an es300 and threw on the trd supercharger for one sick ride.
I realize hood clearance may be an issue in an ST-205, otherwise does anyone see any other problems with this swap (less the supercharger of course). Read the article if possible before responding as there is a ton of info on what is needed in the MR2 swap.

[macavely]

i'm sure i could be done on a celica it's just that no one has tried it yet..or i don't think they have tried it..

[west_minist]

GeEkBoY, you read it, I read it in both SCC and Turbo Magazine.

The mr2 engine compartment is smaller than the celica.

Both engines are about the same height and weight

You may need to construct new mount points. I don't know. If you can get a look aat both engines, that would be nice.

If come hood clearance is need, that would be a nice look

You will need a aftermarket computer to handle is engine good. There use the Mote48 and I agree with them.

I personally do not see any problems except mounting the engine which can be handle. An upgraded fuel pump, fuel lines should do it.

What you will need to do is to replace your suspension in addition to engine change which includes the Axles

[Charlie97L]

QUOTE (west_minist @ May 17, 2003 - 8:02 AM)

GeEkBoY, you read it, I read it in both SCC and Turbo Magazine. The mr2 engine compartment is smaller than the celica. Both engines are about the same height and weight You may need to construct new mount points. I don't know. If you can get a look aat both engines, that would be nice. If come hood clearance is need, that would be a nice look You will need a aftermarket computer to handle is engine good. There use the Mote48 and I agree with them. I personally do not see any problems except mounting the engine which can be handle. An upgraded fuel pump, fuel lines should do it. What you will need to do is to replace your suspension in addition to engine change which includes the Axles

actually, the mr2 engine bay is much taller than the 6th gen engine bay. it may not fit in our bay without modifying the hood... and you'd have to get custom mounts made, just like in SCC.

don't think this is an easy swap. it is probably 10 times more complicated than a 3sgte swap. there was SO much custom work. don't attempt to do it yourself unless you are very confident in your abilities.

[west_minist]

You are right Charlie97L.

It is not for the faint hearted.

Once you have a good shop and good friends with the tools and the shop, you will be good.

I believe this swap is for the "The Beast From the East"

Wide body kit, hood maybe be like the 2004 Subaru STI. nice isn't it?

[SpyderGS]

I asked this question about three weeks ago. Got a lot of negative commentary and people talking down to me because "they" would rather swap in a 3sgte.

[XE_Nathaniel]

Screw them...

-Nate

[jayi12-15psi]

QUOTE

XE_Nathaniel Posted on May 17, 2003 - 12:13 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Screw them... -Nate

ohhhhh, be careful

[jayi12-15psi]

QUOTE

XE_Nathaniel Posted on May 17, 2003 - 12:13 PM -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Screw them... -Nate

ohhhhh, be careful

[Charlie97L]

QUOTE (SpyderGS @ May 17, 2003 - 11:21 AM)

I asked this question about three weeks ago. Got a lot of negative commentary and people talking down to me because "they" would rather swap in a 3sgte.

well, it's a really complicated swap, and it would cost a lot of $$ to get it put in... i'm not discouraging you from doing it, but if you aren't an extremely competent mechanic and fabricator, you won't be able to do it yourself.

[west_minist]

SpyderGS, Charlie97L can help me out here.

You see, the 3SG(T)E 's (3SGE & S3SGTE) are all able to swap into the celica without any problem as all compare to the 1MZ.

We have to wait and see how much the 1MZ can do.

But let me say that the the 3SG(T)E engines are race proven and have been tested in all conditions.

The 1MZ is really nothing.

It is unique and comes in a very nice package. That nice v6 sounds would be great. I love it. I cannot get over them.

But because of the complexity of the swap, it is better left to mechanically incline people.

Example, I can put together a turbo system from scratch. with any problems. All customer made.

I have done Metal, wood, ceramic work and electronics at school and I also have a Degree in Electronics, Mathematics and a minor in Computer sciencs in networking. I have a job in the IT industry.

Taking my back ground very serious, I do not think that anyone without this back ground or some of it, can do all the stuff.

You have to be comfortable in all area. If you open the engine bay and say what the heck, the swap is not for you; In simplicity

So if you know someone there that can do it for you like SP Engineering go ahead.

But a nice 3SGTE setup or even a 3SGE turbocharge will yeild more gain than the 1MZ in HP, but not torque with ease and structual stability.

In all, it would be far cheaper with the 3S than with the 1MZ change over.

Look here!

NA Engine
Engine HP/Torque @ Flywheel

Engine Type Valv/Cyl Year Disp. BHP Torque Bore Stroke CR stock boost+other remarks
/angle [*=JIS] [lb ft] [mm or inches]

3S-GE DOHC 4/50 95-98 1998 180@7000 142@4800 86 86
3S-GE DOHC+VVT-i 98- 1998 190@7000 152@6000 86 86
3S-GE DOHC+DualVVT-i 99 1998 200@7000 159@4800 86 86 11.5:1 JP Altezza (Auto5spd)
3S-GE DOHC+DualVVT-i 99 1998 210@7600 159@6400 86 86 11.5:1 JP Altezza (6spd)

1MZ-FE DOHC 4/22.5 94-96 2995 188@5200 203@4400 87.5 83.0 10.5:1
1MZ-FE DOHC 4 97- 2995 194@5200 209@4400 87.5 83
1MZ-FE DOHC 4 97 2995 210@5400 213@4400 87.5 83 10.5:1
1MZ-FE DOHC 4 00 2995 190@5400 201@4400 87.5 83 ?

As you can see, there is no really different in the figures. The 1MZ will always give more torque than the 3SGE in the lower range.
But I will say it again, the 3SGE is better since there are many parts out there for it since it is use extensive around the world in racing, especially in New Zealand, Australia and JAPAN

Once you can get performance parts for the 1MZ (which there isn't right now), go for the swap, it would yeild more than the old and obsolete 3SGTE

This post has been edited by west_minist: May 17, 2003 - 5:09 PM

[macavely]

the best things are the ones thay no one else has and take a while to get done....If roll up with a 6gc with a V6 under the hood you'll be a god...

[GeEkBoY]

Thanks for the input. It is a little way off, but I would not do this without a ton of planning and research, and I have to finish school for the second time next year before proceeding. I see it as a straightforward swap, IF the stock transmision with a clutch upgrate, shafts and CV joints can be used (opinions on this would be appreciated). If they can't, yeah it's a nightmare.

The jap spec GT-4 engine would be expensive up here but is an option and there were very few MR2 brought over to Canada, but a 94+ V6 is easy to come by up here. They call it the great white north up here for a good reason, however not for the snow, but all the salt they put on the roads....

I like the V6 because of the tremendous reliability, it does not need 94 octane, and I like being different, oh yeah, the torque does not hurt either. If I could snag a 99 es300, I should easily get 220+ HP at the crank with a good intake and exhaust

My 94 GT is different than the US ones as it has no ABS and no airbags, none.... (also it was one of the first ones over here, originally sold mid 93, so it has almost no sound dampening material in the back end so it is a little lighter . Because of this, the computer would be a straight swap into the celica as the old one would be completely useless and I would just toss it. I may need to transfer some things such as the fuel pump over, but I will have to purchase shop manuals to determine if that is necessary. Most of the work should be electrical, but I am mythodical enough to plan that out so it goes smoothly.

BTW my credentials... Mechanical engineer, comfortable with cars, but not welding. I pulled and replaced the engine in a fiero almost single handed. (needed help while lifting the car on and off the subframe and in setting the timing)

If you have any ideas, let me know.
thanks,
GeEkBoY

[west_minist]

Ok. it is nice to see something different.

if I had the choice, I would put it in.

After all, you have the cc.

[Charlie97L]

well, you'll have to do some custom work on the engine mounts and transmission mounts. that's your really big hurdle. and the wiring will be a nightmare, you'll have to take all the wiring out of your car, put the V6 wiring in, and probably do some miracles to get it to work.

[west_minist]

The wiring may not be a problem if you have a motec, EMS, Autronics, Haltek dealer in your area that can help you.

If you are planning to do it yourself, you will need the 1MZ service manual.

But planning is the main thing.

Ok! sorry! Since you are in Canada, go to extremeboost.com and see what there have and have alittle chat with Jeff. Nice chat and has a br2 with over 500HP 3SGTE.

This post has been edited by west_minist: May 17, 2003 - 9:21 PM

[Drocay]

I figure anything is possible if you have enough money

[Charlie97L]

QUOTE (Drocay @ May 21, 2003 - 6:30 AM)

I figure anything is possible if you have enough money

yes it is! i would love to see this swap done... the only thing that worries me is the hood clearance. we don't have a tall engine bay.

[FallenHero]

Is the wiering compatible? I would think you would have to gut most of the electronics just to have a chance. Also, think about custom fabbing all of your accessories to make it work.

[west_minist]

Charlie!

Have you ever seen a Nissan Pulsar!

The hood is not a problem.

The wiring is not weird, just need special care.

" Also, think about custom fabbing all of your accessories to make it work." ???????????????

With this system, you would be install an aftermarket programmeable ECU.