clocking turbo Options

[Mr_chOps]

hey guys...im planning on getting a st185 clip and i was just wondering...if i clock the turbo what dif. does it make?? does it improve on performance?? i no it uses less IC piping rite??

[lagos]

hey guys...im planning on getting a st185 clip and i was just wondering...if i clock the turbo what dif. does it make?? does it improve on performance?? i no it uses less IC piping rite??

its mostly for looks, and a little less ic piping having to be run

[jgreening]

My car became much more responsive....or could that be because of the new turbo?

Actually, I agree with Art. I think its funny how people think that intercooler piping makes such a big difference. Its much more important to have a relatively smooth path - particularly before the intake manifold.

[Dr_Tweak]

By clocking the turbo you remove a 180* and a 45* degree bend from the piping. That does make a difference, not to mention that you don't have the intercooler piping looped over the hot exhaust manifold.

-Doc

[lagos]

not to mention that you don't have the intercooler piping looped over the hot exhaust manifold.

thats what heat wrap is for!

i will probably clock mine at some point, just to have a cleaner look. the only hard part is trying to fab up a bracket that would work well for the actuator.

[jgreening]

not to mention that you don't have the intercooler piping looped over the hot exhaust manifold.

Thats the hot side of the intercooler. The exhaust gasses are just as hot as the manifold at that point anyway so looping it over the manifold makes no difference.

[Dr_Tweak]

The exhaust gasses may be, but the intake air is not. Every little bit helps.

Besides, I heard once that each 90* bend is equal to like 3 feet of piping... if that's true, eliminating a 180* and a 45* bend from the route the intercooler has to take makes a big difference.

[Mr_chOps]

thanks for the responses guys. im probly just going to leave it stock and wrab the ct26 with heat wrap or something..THANKS

[jgreening]

The exhaust gasses may be, but the intake air is not. Every little bit helps.

The intake air is not in the loop that is eliminated by clocking the turbo either.

I do not argue that running a more direct route is generally better than a route that has 180 degrees of more bends. My only point is that the improvement is marginal at best.

This post has been edited by jgreening: Jan 16, 2006 - 11:43 AM

[Dr_Tweak]

The exhaust gasses may be, but the intake air is not. Every little bit helps.

The intake air is not in the loop that is eliminated by clocking the turbo either.

I do not argue that running a more direct route is generally better than a route that has 180 degrees of more bends. My only point is that the improvement is marginal at best.

Yeah it is. What in the world are you talking about? That loop is the air that just came out of your turbo and is headed to the intercooler and then through your engine.

There isn't a massive improvement though, that's true. It just looks a lot cleaner and functions a little better.

-Doc

[jgreening]

The exhaust gasses may be, but the intake air is not. Every little bit helps.

The intake air is not in the loop that is eliminated by clocking the turbo either.

I do not argue that running a more direct route is generally better than a route that has 180 degrees of more bends. My only point is that the improvement is marginal at best.

Yeah it is. What in the world are you talking about? That loop is the air that just came out of your turbo and is headed to the intercooler and then through your engine.

There isn't a massive improvement though, that's true. It just looks a lot cleaner and functions a little better.

-Doc

Doc: I understand that the air coming out of the turbo eventually ends up in the intake. My point was in response to your statement that the "intake air is not hot". Its not hot because it is cooled by the intercooler. The air in the loop coming out of the turbo is the same temperature as the exhaust gasses. If the turbo is clocked and the loop is not there, the temperature from the turbo to the hotside (passenger side) of the intercooler is also hot. Eliminating the loop does NOTHING for intake charge temperatures.

The reason it functions "a little" better is because the elimination of 180 degrees of turns.

I am not trying to argue here. I think we both know how it works but I wanted to explain what I meant.

[Dr_Tweak]

Doc: I understand that the air coming out of the turbo eventually ends up in the intake. My point was in response to your statement that the "intake air is not hot". Its not hot because it is cooled by the intercooler. The air in the loop coming out of the turbo is the same temperature as the exhaust gasses. If the turbo is clocked and the loop is not there, the temperature from the turbo to the hotside (passenger side) of the intercooler is also hot. Eliminating the loop does NOTHING for intake charge temperatures.

The reason it functions "a little" better is because the elimination of 180 degrees of turns.

I am not trying to argue here. I think we both know how it works but I wanted to explain what I meant.

LMAO. The temp of the charged intake air coming out of the turbo is in excess of 800 degrees??? You better do some more research before you start trying to argue turbo theory with me.

And it's a 180 and a 45, just to be clear.

-Doc

This post has been edited by Dr_Tweak: Jan 18, 2006 - 9:53 PM

[lagos]

i dont think any one can say what benefit or drawback each way has, unless they tried it bowth ways on the same turbo/engine. i might clock mine when i take my motor out again this summer, but i dont really expect any huge gain from it. just more for a cleaner look.

[jgreening]

Doc: I understand that the air coming out of the turbo eventually ends up in the intake. My point was in response to your statement that the "intake air is not hot". Its not hot because it is cooled by the intercooler. The air in the loop coming out of the turbo is the same temperature as the exhaust gasses. If the turbo is clocked and the loop is not there, the temperature from the turbo to the hotside (passenger side) of the intercooler is also hot. Eliminating the loop does NOTHING for intake charge temperatures.

The reason it functions "a little" better is because the elimination of 180 degrees of turns.

I am not trying to argue here. I think we both know how it works but I wanted to explain what I meant.

LMAO. The temp of the charged intake air coming out of the turbo is in excess of 800 degrees??? You better do some more research before you start trying to argue turbo theory with me.

And it's a 180 and a 45, just to be clear.

-Doc

I made a mistatement in this thread when I suggested that the temps in the manifold were identical to the temps directly after the turbo.

With that said, you missed my entire point. Are you really saying that running that loop over the manifold impacts intake temperatures when a decently efficient intercooler will take the temperature down to near ambient? I won't be so disrespectful to suggest you do more research but I will say that if you think that then we just disagree.

This post has been edited by jgreening: Jan 19, 2006 - 2:51 AM

[lagos]

not to mention that you don't have the intercooler piping looped over the hot exhaust manifold.

thats what heat wrap is for!

i said it once, and ill quote it again ! haha

[jgreening]

not to mention that you don't have the intercooler piping looped over the hot exhaust manifold.

thats what heat wrap is for!

i said it once, and ill quote it again ! haha

LMAO. Art, you kill me man! You going to weigh in on this debate or just bust my balls about the heat wrap?

[lagos]

i thought we needed something to break the ice

[jgreening]

fair enough.

[presure2]

i gotta agree with jay on this one.
with my setup, all i have is one extra 90 in the loop. (i didnt go around the bumper with my hot side piping, i went thru the rad support)
even after hard boosting runs, you feel the cold side, and its cool to the touch.

[Dr_Tweak]

There isn't a massive improvement though, that's true. It just looks a lot cleaner and functions a little better.

-Doc

Are you guys even reading my posts?

[jgreening]

By clocking the turbo you . . . don't have the intercooler piping looped over the hot exhaust manifold.

-Doc

Are you really saying that running that loop over the manifold impacts intake temperatures when a decently efficient intercooler will take the temperature down to near ambient?

Yes or No?

[Dr_Tweak]

By clocking the turbo you . . . don't have the intercooler piping looped over the hot exhaust manifold.

-Doc

Are you really saying that running that loop over the manifold impacts intake temperatures when a decently efficient intercooler will take the temperature down to near ambient?

Yes or No?

Yes. Big difference? No. But a few degrees cooler BEFORE the intercooler means a few degrees cooler AFTER the intercooler, and cooler air = more power.

Example, a cold air intake is highly recommended to make more power on a turbocharged (or any other) engine. Now, how much colder is the air down near the fender well compared to the engine bay (in a car that's driving, say, 60mph). Not very much! But, the little difference does make more power, and yet, the cooler air from the cold air intake still has to go through the compressor (being heated up) and then cooled again!


So yes, you should do everything in your power to lower the temperature of your intake air at EVERY point in the system, before the turbo, after the turbo, and after the intercooler. This is the idea behind a WELL DESIGNED turbo system. No decent aftermarket turbo system builder would intentionally route the turbo and piping the way you're talking. If they wouldn't, then why should we?

Don't be jealous just because you don't have a pimp clocked turbo

This post has been edited by Dr_Tweak: Jan 20, 2006 - 7:41 PM

[jgreening]

Well, at least you stuck by your statement - I thought you would back down when confronted by my super logic. I guess we just disagree here which is fine. The truth is without an IAT guage and switching the setup in the middle of the test, we will probably never know. Really, I think the issue comes down to the capacity and efficiency of the intercooler. There are A/W intercoolers out there that take the intake temperatures down to ambient. I would imagine that good a/a setups could do almost, if not as good. I have a very hard time understanding how the temperatures could get any cooler than ambient by eliminating the loop - but hey I think its time to stop beating the dead horse.

Oh, and to correct the statement, I have eliminated the loop and clocked my turbo down.

Thanks for the entertaining debate.

- Jay

[Dr_Tweak]

Well, at least you stuck by your statement - I thought you would back down when confronted by my super logic. I guess we just disagree here which is fine. The truth is without an IAT guage and switching the setup in the middle of the test, we will probably never know. Really, I think the issue comes down to the capacity and efficiency of the intercooler. There are A/W intercoolers out there that take the intake temperatures down to ambient. I would imagine that good a/a setups could do almost, if not as good. I have a very hard time understanding how the temperatures could get any cooler than ambient by eliminating the loop - but hey I think its time to stop beating the dead horse.

Oh, and to correct the statement, I have eliminated the loop and clocked my turbo down.

Thanks for the entertaining debate.

- Jay

You serious? Why in the world did you do that.

Oh yeah, and a WTA intercooler is capable of MORE than 100% efficiency, if you add ice!

I agree it's time to end the debate. That said, I'm now very tempted to get an IAT guage and do a test next chance I get.

This post has been edited by Dr_Tweak: Jan 20, 2006 - 8:19 PM

[lagos]

no more debate from me, but i just want to point out 2 things that dont make sense to me

Example, a cold air intake is highly recommended to make more power on a turbocharged (or any other) engine.

you know, i have NEVER seen a cold air intake on any turbo car.... even then ones making huge hp, normally keep the intakes in the bay, but remove a headlight or something to get more air in .

No decent aftermarket turbo system builder would intentionally route the turbo and piping the way you're talking.

who are you talking about, you? lol cause last time i checked no one really makes an intercooler and turbo kit for our cars. the only one i can think of is toyota, when they ran the piping over the manifold in the mr2.


any extra bends you can get rid off, is a good thing... and like i said, i might clock mine....but i dont expect to notice a gain from it.

[Dr_Tweak]

no more debate from me, but i just want to point out 2 things that dont make sense to me

Example, a cold air intake is highly recommended to make more power on a turbocharged (or any other) engine.

you know, i have NEVER seen a cold air intake on any turbo car.... even then ones making huge hp, normally keep the intakes in the bay, but remove a headlight or something to get more air in .

No decent aftermarket turbo system builder would intentionally route the turbo and piping the way you're talking.

who are you talking about, you? lol cause last time i checked no one really makes an intercooler and turbo kit for our cars. the only one i can think of is toyota, when they ran the piping over the manifold in the mr2.


any extra bends you can get rid off, is a good thing... and like i said, i might clock mine....but i dont expect to notice a gain from it.

Well, for your first question, I'm taking that information directly from two books that I've recently read. One written by Jeff Hartman and the other by Corky Bell. So you can argue with those two guys if you want

And I wasn't referring to our cars, I'm just speaking in general. Take a look at a nice Blitz turbo kit or something, and you'll see that the engineers who built it went through a lot of trouble to 1. avoid running the piping near hot areas and 2. use as few bends as possible.

-Doc

[lilsteeg]

clocking it does good, cooler air into intercooler= cooler air out of the intercooler, they dont just cool down any temp air down to a certain temp, they cool down the air a certain amount so a few degrees cooler in means a few degrees cooler out, and if you are gonna say that its not worth it than tell all the kids out there runnin cai's that it doesnt matter, which it doesnt make much of a difference but it does,

[playr158]

cold air + turbo is normally a no no...(Thats why we run intercoolers)
turbo'd cars i like to stick to
volume over temperature......
the more you can suck the better off you are then sucking less and a few degree's cooler...

[jgreening]

Oh, and to correct the statement, I have eliminated the loop and clocked my turbo down.

You serious? Why in the world did you do that.

LMAO. Good one. I did it to reduce my air intake temperatures. HA HA.

This post has been edited by jgreening: Jan 21, 2006 - 4:13 AM

[lilsteeg]

if you want volume over temp, than you need colder air, have you ever played with a paintball gun notice that the compressed air is freakin cold, thats because in colder air the molocules are closer together meaning you can get more air in a given space= more air into motor thats why you run intercoolers to get the coldest and densest air possible.

[jgreening]

colder air the molocules are closer together meaning you can get more air in a given space= more air into motor thats why you run intercoolers to get the coldest and densest air possible.

No one is arguing that point. What we were debating is whether taking measures to minimize the warming of intercooler pipes on the hot side matters since the intercooler will do its job on the air anyway.

[lilsteeg]

cold air + turbo is normally a no no...(Thats why we run intercoolers)
turbo'd cars i like to stick to
volume over temperature......
the more you can suck the better off you are then sucking less and a few degree's cooler...

volume over temp, right there thats what i was arguing

[jgreening]

cold air + turbo is normally a no no...(Thats why we run intercoolers)
turbo'd cars i like to stick to
volume over temperature......
the more you can suck the better off you are then sucking less and a few degree's cooler...

volume over temp, right there thats what i was arguing

I am glad someone understood what he meant...

[DG_Performance]

While you guys are at it....why not add an intercooler sprayer to the mix? Spray the intercooler with water or gas to make it more effective! Then, lets all go and do some dyno pulls for results instead of arguing over each persons theories!
DG

[playr158]

nter-cooler my nitrous express

[jayi12-15psi]

sorry to be an idiot here, but what is clocking a turbo?

[gt_driFFter]

Repositioning the angle of a turbo to decrease the amount of bends in piping, thus giving better performance.

[jayi12-15psi]

oh, very interesting, I had never heard of this before, this thread is very enlightening.

[zipstrips]

gt drifter, is that image ofthe ct26 being clocked?

anyone have real pics of the clocked ct26, and how the (stock) WG was modded to work?

[BBoYRuGGeD]

gt drifter, is that image ofthe ct26 being clocked?

anyone have real pics of the clocked ct26, and how the (stock) WG was modded to work?

i can take pics tomorrow when the sun goes up and when my sister gives me my damn dig camera back...lol anyway i just hope i dont forgot

bboy

[brianforster]

im gonna bump this thread, as i want to clock the turbo before i put it into my car, i jsut need a little more information on how this is done, how much fabrication is needed and what exactly i need to do to complete it

[BBoYRuGGeD]

heres a great topic from alltrac.net about clocking the stock ct26 turbo. read up cuz they have some great pictures/info on how to do it

http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4603

bboy

edit: i'd take a pic of how my bracket was made but the damn radiator hose is in the way and i cant get a good shot...sorry bro

This post has been edited by BBoYRuGGeD: Feb 24, 2006 - 4:05 PM

[brianforster]

i actually found out this morning that my turbo was already clocked

woot woot

[BBoYRuGGeD]

i actually found out this morning that my turbo was already clocked

woot woot

oh wow great news...one less headache to worry about

bboy