Gen3 3SGTE Dyno Run, Guess my numbers! Options

[CilverSeliST205]

On either the 20th or 27th I am going to do a couple of pulls on a dynojet, so I would like for you guys to guess the results... so:

Altitude: 176meters above the sea level, predicted temp. ~ 65-75F

POWER MODS:
'95 Gen III 3S-GTE swap
99' Solara v6 tranny
Precision turbo FMIC (don't know the dimensions but i know its bar&plate)
2.5" mandrel bent IC piping
Apex'i intake
3" catless downpipe (xs power.... ewww....)
3" catless custom mandrel bent exhaust (or DG exhaust)
Magnaflow muffler
Blitz DSBC

I am going to do 2 pulls, one on stock boost ~14 psi and one at 17 psi, so guess for each pull.

I do not have the boost controller and muffler yet, so if anyone wants to advise against, or recommend something better than blitz dsbc or magnaflow muffler, please do so quickly before I order them...
Ill post the graphs and runfiles right after the dyno session

[brianforster]

is that the precision turbo intercooler that they say is for the 300 whp applications? if so i have that one, i really like it, and so does my very picky vw fanatic friend. he actually went right out and bought it after i did.

im going to guess 24- whp at 14 psi and 26- whp at 17 psi

i really dont know much about 3rd gens though so i might be way off

This post has been edited by brianforster: May 10, 2006 - 3:10 PM

[lagos]

when u go to the dyno, can you make sure they give you the run file, and can you post it here? also, make sure they log your a/f with a wide band o2 sensor. id love to see how the 2nd and 3rd gen swaps compare on a dyno.


my guess ... youll make around 260-280 hp...somwhere in that ballpark.

[Defgeph]

If they offer boost log, pay the extra money. Its worth it.

Good luck

[BBoYRuGGeD]

270'ish...around there maybe more

off topic...how'd u go about doing ur solara trans swap? what axles, mounts did u use?

bboy

[CilverSeliST205]

Brian - Im not sure what is the hp rating for this intercooler, but when my intake air temp sensor and gauge comes in ill post the efficiency (little experimenting with co2, water spray, heat shielding, and ducted air box for the filter)

Lagos - I wouldn't go to a dyno that doesn't offer WB logging and i will bring floppies with me for the runfiles. 260-280 thats what im hoping for too

Def - How much extra $ would they charge me for boost log ? approx.? they are charging me 75$ for 2 runs with WB, im not sure if boost logging is included...

BBoy - Solara inners, not sure of the outers, custom spacers welded to get the lenght right... I'm a drivetrain noob and that is all i know about the my axles

[lagos]

they shouldnt charge you extra to log boost, but you have to ask them ahead of time to see if their dynojet has that feature. most dont.

[jgreening]

when u go to the dyno, can you make sure they give you the run file, and can you post it here? also, make sure they log your a/f with a wide band o2 sensor. id love to see how the 2nd and 3rd gen swaps compare on a dyno.


my guess ... youll make around 260-280 hp...somwhere in that ballpark.

If you are talking whp with a ct20b, I say you are way off. I will guess 240whp at 17psi.

[lagos]

when u go to the dyno, can you make sure they give you the run file, and can you post it here? also, make sure they log your a/f with a wide band o2 sensor. id love to see how the 2nd and 3rd gen swaps compare on a dyno.


my guess ... youll make around 260-280 hp...somwhere in that ballpark.

If you are talking whp with a ct20b, I say you are way off. I will guess 240whp at 17psi.

if thats true, then it wouldnt be much of an upgrade over the ct26

[presure2]

stock will be around 225-235.
@17 psi around 260 or so whp.

[CilverSeliST205]

when u go to the dyno, can you make sure they give you the run file, and can you post it here? also, make sure they log your a/f with a wide band o2 sensor. id love to see how the 2nd and 3rd gen swaps compare on a dyno.


my guess ... youll make around 260-280 hp...somwhere in that ballpark.

If you are talking whp with a ct20b, I say you are way off. I will guess 240whp at 17psi.

Why such low estimate Jay ? My only worry is knock related retard coz of 93 octane on jdm ecu maps... should i add xylene/toulene/race gas for the dyno run? or is that cheating

I found a couple of dyno pulls of gen3 + BPU + pump gas

http://mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=171601
93 octane, mbc, apexi intake and open 3" DP
263 hp 265 ft/lb tq @ 18 psi
239 hp 246 ft/ lb tq @ 16
thats with ignition problems...
other guy with similar mods got 235whp with stock boost and healthy ignition

http://mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=45631
stock ecu, pump gas, bpu
229hp 221tq @ 10 psi (how can you get 10 psi when WG is on like 14psi actuator ????)
252hp 274tq @ 16 psi

My guess is 255-265 whp

[Consynx]

246, for the 14 psi

[brianforster]

wow looks like im gonna be theoretically dead on, woot woot

[CilverSeliST205]

3rd or 4th gear pulls guys ? Jeff, Manny, Art and Jay which gear did you guys did your pulls on ?

[presure2]

i always do 4th gear pulls.

[jgreening]

i always do 4th gear pulls.

Yep, me too. Its a little harder on the engine though.

[jgreening]

when u go to the dyno, can you make sure they give you the run file, and can you post it here? also, make sure they log your a/f with a wide band o2 sensor. id love to see how the 2nd and 3rd gen swaps compare on a dyno.


my guess ... youll make around 260-280 hp...somwhere in that ballpark.

If you are talking whp with a ct20b, I say you are way off. I will guess 240whp at 17psi.

Why such low estimate Jay ? My only worry is knock related retard coz of 93 octane on jdm ecu maps... should i add xylene/toulene/race gas for the dyno run? or is that cheating

I found a couple of dyno pulls of gen3 + BPU + pump gas

http://mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=171601
93 octane, mbc, apexi intake and open 3" DP
263 hp 265 ft/lb tq @ 18 psi
239 hp 246 ft/ lb tq @ 16
thats with ignition problems...
other guy with similar mods got 235whp with stock boost and healthy ignition

http://mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=45631
stock ecu, pump gas, bpu
229hp 221tq @ 10 psi (how can you get 10 psi when WG is on like 14psi actuator ????)
252hp 274tq @ 16 psi

My guess is 255-265 whp

Don't get me wrong, I hope you do better and wish you well. Most of all, have fun. However, you asked me to make guess, and I did. The basic reason is that the ct20b cannot overcome the fall-off due to stock cams. Getting above 260whp on a stock cam / stock turbo 3sgte is difficult without tuning. On a gen II, its very difficult to get over 240whp due to the stock fuel maps - although Jeff and some others on mr2oc.com have done it. Its a little easier on a gen III because every breathing modification you put on makes your car run leaner and that adds power. It also increases risk of blowing the engine if you are not tuning or at least monitoring the a/f ratio. Which leads me to my last point: do not do a dyno run on a modded gen III without a wideband hooked up and being prepared to cut the run if you go over 12 a/f ratio. Good luck.

Jay

[CilverSeliST205]

Don't get me wrong, I hope you do better and wish you well. Most of all, have fun. However, you asked me to make guess, and I did. The basic reason is that the ct20b cannot overcome the fall-off due to stock cams. Getting above 260whp on a stock cam / stock turbo 3sgte is difficult without tuning. On a gen II, its very difficult to get over 240whp due to the stock fuel maps - although Jeff and some others on mr2oc.com have done it. Its a little easier on a gen III because every breathing modification you put on makes your car run leaner and that adds power. It also increases risk of blowing the engine if you are not tuning or at least monitoring the a/f ratio. Which leads me to my last point: do not do a dyno run on a modded gen III without a wideband hooked up and being prepared to cut the run if you go over 12 a/f ratio. Good luck.

Jay

Very valuable info, learned something new today...
Why breathing mods make the mixture leaner in gen3? is it because of MAP sensor based fueling? I know oem ecu likes to run really rich on boost in mid-top end, but if I see my A/F too lean to be on the safe side then what can I do to add more fuel? FPR, piggyback fuel controller ? or is EMS the only way ? Also how can I shift the boost cut a bit higher than 17-18 psi on a MAP setup?

[jgreening]

Why breathing mods make the mixture leaner in gen3? is it because of MAP sensor based fueling?

I know oem ecu likes to run really rich on boost in mid-top end, but if I see my A/F too lean to be on the safe side then what can I do to add more fuel? FPR, piggyback fuel controller ?

or is EMS the only way ?

Also how can I shift the boost cut a bit higher than 17-18 psi on a MAP setup?

Yes. A map system adds fuel based on air pressure - not flow like an AFM equipped Gen II 3sgte. Thus, when you increase flow with a breathing modification like a new exhaust, the pressure could theoretically stay the same (or even be reduced) which would tell the ECU to keep the fuel the same (or reduce it) but the air content in the mixture will be much higher - causing a more lean condition. Ricky B from MR Controls reports that he has seen many modded Gen III set ups that run on the ragged edge of safety. The bottom line is be careful, and be smart.

Yes.

No, its not the only way but it is the best way.

I am pretty sure you can get a FCD for a gen III. Some other folks on here will know for sure though. If you get an EMS, you can set fuel cut at anything you want including eliminating it all together if you want.

[CilverSeliST205]

Yes. A map system adds fuel based on air pressure - not flow like an AFM equipped Gen II 3sgte. Thus, when you increase flow with a breathing modification like a new exhaust, the pressure could theoretically stay the same (or even be reduced) which would tell the ECU to keep the fuel the same (or reduce it) but the air content in the mixture will be much higher - causing a more lean condition.

I have hard time understanding how you can increase flow without increasing the pressure? Isn't pressure directly proportional to flow? For example, if i get rid of an restrictive intake in favor of a short ram i will increase the flow -> flowing more air into the mani -> producing more manifold pressure ?? Enlighten me please

Another thing is FCD, how would such thing work on a gen3 ? It can't just cut off MAP signal, and altering it would cause very dangerous mixture leaning...