So why are Super Struts so great?, This just occured to me... Options

[saleeka]

Hopefully someone with knowlege about suspentions and superstruts can help answer this, so here goes-

So the 6th gen, along with various other toyotas from the time had what was called a "super strut" suspention setup in the high performance models. Now, from what i've always understood is that they help to give greater traction and handling (in ideal situations), but my question arises because of this. The 7th gen. Celica has wishbone suspention, correct? I've always understood wishbones to be superior for performance applications in regards to handling and grip, in general. So why is it that in the 7th gen, the SS-I and SS-II's (JDM mind you) carried the wishbone setup, and then the top models were the SS-II Super Strut cars? How exactly does the superstrut surpass (or differ) from the "more basic" wishbone models? I'd just like some insight from someone who knows what they are talking about, because this flies in the face from what i've always thought I understood...

[Kwanza26]

Hopefully someone with knowlege about suspentions and superstruts can help answer this, so here goes-

So the 6th gen, along with various other toyotas from the time had what was called a "super strut" suspention setup in the high performance models. Now, from what i've always understood is that they help to give greater traction and handling (in ideal situations), but my question arises because of this. The 7th gen. Celica has wishbone suspention, correct? I've always understood wishbones to be superior for performance applications in regards to handling and grip, in general. So why is it that in the 7th gen, the SS-I and SS-II's (JDM mind you) carried the wishbone setup, and then the top models were the SS-II Super Strut cars? How exactly does the superstrut surpass (or differ) from the "more basic" wishbone models? I'd just like some insight from someone who knows what they are talking about, because this flies in the face from what i've always thought I understood...

Easy answer... the 6th gens (SSI and SSII non Super Strut models) did NOT come with wishbone suspension, per-say double wishbones. They came simply with a lower control arm, which can be considered a single wishbone... however because it mounts to a macphearson strut, it changes things. Double wishbone suspension is ideal from a tuning standpoint, but because of the size double wishbone design, it's not cost effective for relatively low cost sport compacts such as Celicas to have front and rear double wishbone suspension. The 7th gen did have double wishbone rear suspension... but only came with macphearson struts on the fronts. Why? Super Struts, although can potentially perform better... had other significant drawbacks. Difficult to tune and maintain, and expensive.

This post has been edited by Kwanza26: Dec 15, 2006 - 12:35 AM

[doGGy]

Well i will try to explain form what i understand is the biggest difference between Mac and SS and what are advatiges of having SS suspension. I drawed a little sketch with MS Paint (it sucks big time ) so i hope you will understand:



First on the left is Mac suspensions. As it only usses 2 moving points - the biggest loss is the traction when the suspension is moving. Basicly wheel isnt moving in a straight line when it is going up and down - so this means tire has less contact with the ground / less surface for gripping/handling.

On the right SS suspension, as it has 5 joints, and it is set up the way to let the wheel move on the 90' vertical line - tire is always on its full profile on the ground. But the biggest disapointment of this suspension is what even if one joint will go out - and you will have terible knocking in the suspension - witch feels on whole car even on a little bumps... + you will need to shangle whole arm witch costs Stupidly inormal $...

With the SS the ride quality is more confy, and gives you more secured handling. But i would go back to Mac all the way if i had to chose... Life has proven what more simple things make your life easyer As i have ST witch is beeing parted out - so i will just put the normal Mac suspension on my SSIII to make my life easyer.. Cuz when you know what you have to pay 350$ for the small sub arm witch goes on the main 8 figure arm (and this damn 8 figure arm center joint is out on my car and it costs around somthere 500$ for the whole arm) it kinda starts to piss you off

[hitcachi]

nice drawing romas! Despite what you've said, I still want to own a car with SS one day to compare and contrast.

[vsideboy]

well done with the drawing mate, couldn't explain it better myself.

As far as reliability goes, I have had no problems with mine other than the fig 8 piece has gone on both sides. Which for a 100,000 mile 12 year old car isn't bad to have to change those once in 4 years of ownership (I don't think so anyway.)

We can get them for about £80 each. Think you're getting ripped off having to pay $500+, you don't need to change the full arm, the fig 8 can be changed seperately.

Also, the common diagnosis of the fig 8 needing replacing (that I found anyway) is that the car pulls to one side or the other. Accelerate and steer in a straight line then let off the accelerator and the car will go sideways slightly, accelerate and it will pull itself straight again.

[Consynx]

dual wishbone vs ss???

[doGGy]

well done with the drawing mate, couldn't explain it better myself.

As far as reliability goes, I have had no problems with mine other than the fig 8 piece has gone on both sides. Which for a 100,000 mile 12 year old car isn't bad to have to change those once in 4 years of ownership (I don't think so anyway.)

We can get them for about £80 each. Think you're getting ripped off having to pay $500+, you don't need to change the full arm, the fig 8 can be changed seperately.

Also, the common diagnosis of the fig 8 needing replacing (that I found anyway) is that the car pulls to one side or the other. Accelerate and steer in a straight line then let off the accelerator and the car will go sideways slightly, accelerate and it will pull itself straight again.

I made a mistake writing what 8 figure cost 500$ sry - i mean 500$ is for the whole center arm - this damn 8 igure costs around 200$ here.

But still my SSIII has 86k km its like 50K miles - and both 8 figures are out - so im going to try and restore them in a company who does this - but if they will go out quick - im gonna ditch the superstrut and go back to Mac.