In need of some legal help/advice.. Options

[AMCMoe]

I need help with some legal things that I'm not sure about. My post will explain everything- I'm 19, drive a '94 Celica, live at home with my parents while going to school full time and working 2 part time jobs. I recently bought a 1996 Jeep Cherokee for $800 from a friend of mine. Good price. To pass inspection I needed to get the drivers side floorboard fixed since it had some holes in it. My dad called around to some welding shops and the one he thought best would be a place called Bill's Welding. "Bill" (whose real name is Larry) said to bring the Jeep in and he'll get the job done. That night I bring the Jeep in, on December 23rd. Bill says he has some projects but he'll try to get to it next week. I figured that was fine, since it was Christmas and everything.

Next week comes and goes, no call. I drive past the shop a few times and then one day, finally, my Jeep was inside so I thought I'd expect a call within a day or two.

January 10th my dad calls to see if he's done anything with the Jeep. He says he took the carpet out. My dad told him that I only bought the Jeep for $800 so I don't want to spend very much to get it fixed (it's a floorboard. not that hard) and he says "All I can say is I'm $45 an hour plus materials". My dad says "Well when you get the carpet up, could you give us and estimate?" (He already had the carpet up, my dad just wanted him to look at it and figure out the price.) Bill says "Yeah I can do that." Pretty much end of conversation. We don't hear back from him. He never calls with the estimate.

During work I talk to a guy I work with about the Jeep and he says I should have told him because he could weld it for me. This past Monday my mom calls the shop and gets the answering machine (they don't like to answer phones, or return calls) so she leaves a message telling them that they're taking entirely too long with the Jeep and that I have someone else who will do the welding for me so we're just going to come pick it up (and I'd pay whatever was necessary for taking the carpet out, etc).

They never return the call to say when I can come pick it up so tonight, January 18th, my mom and I go into Bill's shop, wait about 10 minutes for anyone to come out, and then say we're here to pick up the Jeep. He says "Ok, but we have a little problem." My mom says "What's that?" and Bill says he was out sick since this past Thursday (He's had open heart surgery in the past (irrelavent), drinks and smokes excessively, but thats beside the point.) and just came in to work today. So then he goes to get the papers and his calculator, then says that since he couldn't get back to us about the estimate he'll take 3 hours of labor off. (Me, thinking it was going to be about a 3 hour job....) So then he tells my mom and I that "He was out sick, blah blah, and since he pulled my Jeep into the shop previously, his guys went ahead and did the work on the Jeep while he was out. And they put 18.5 hours of labor into it, and that the passenger side floorboard needed fixed as well. But he'll take off 3 hours of labor since he didn't get back to us with the estimate..." I looked under the Jeep, and hit it with a screw driver to see if I could find any rust spots that went through, I felt none, but whatever. But 18.5 hours of labor to replace the floorboards?! My friend did a great job replacing his, in 3 hours.

-I ask for an estimate, and he fails to give me one
-I tell him I don't want to spend very much on it since I only bought the Jeep for $800
-My mom calls 3 days ago to say that we're just coming to pick it up since it's taking too long and I have someone who will do it for free.

His total comes to $845 with materials, after the subtracted 3 hours of labor to "compensate" for not getting back to us with the estimate. This totally shocks both my mom and I. I was planning on spending $200 at most. His total is $45 MORE than I bought my Jeep for. Even after my dad clearly told him that I don't want to spend very much on it since I only BOUGHT IT FOR $800. So he hands us the bill and my mom, still shocked and extremely angry, signs a check for $845 (I keep my money in my bank, so I have less than $75 in my wallet with me..), signs the bill and hands it to him. He gives me the key and says thanks and we leave, me telling her that I KNEW he was going to pull that. For the past 2 weeks I've been saying how my Jeep probably now has parts in all 48 lower States and that he's going to pull some crap about it taking 14 hours of labor. But 18 and a half hours of labor to replace the floorboards? (I honestly think it only really needed the passenger’s side done. The passenger side seemed fine, but I didn't get to pull the carpet up on that side to see for myself before taking it in.

Now that you've spent this much time reading the whole dispute, I'll ask for your advice. What can I do about this? My mom looked up "Bill's Welding" at the Better Business Bureau and there was something else filed against his shop last year at this time.

The owner of a pizza shop I work for at my other job said I should not pay him (void the check), negotiate with him to see if he'll lower the price (my dad went into his shop tonight to give him a piece of his mind.) or to void the check and wait for him to hire a lawyer ($$) to take me to court to try to get the money from me, of which I find it hard to believe that a judge would let him win. But I don't know very much about law, so I'm not sure. My law class didn’t teach me about situations like this. :-p My mom signed the check and the bill, so I'm not sure what we can do. He thinks since she signed it, there isn’t much we can do. I could really use any help anyone could give me. Thanks a lot for reading this long post and I appreciate any input you may have.

This post has been edited by AMCMoe: Jan 19, 2007 - 12:51 PM

[Rayme]

You shouldn't have paied in the first time.

You should get estimate from different shops around for the same amount of work and go to small claim court...but you paied already..so I don't know. It took way too long and..from Judge Judy screening (for whats its worth) if you are not satisfied with the work, you shouldn't have to pay.(that was her ruling)

This post has been edited by Rayme: Jan 18, 2007 - 10:52 PM

[AMCMoe]

Thanks for responding. Yeah I'm not sure what I can do now that we already paid for it. We didn't think about it as 'signing over the right to dispute' before we signed and paid, even though it seemed ridiculous how much he charged for that job.. I hope we can get some of the money back. I mean it was all labor charge. He charged $100 for the metal, which I'm fine with, but $750 for labor...?

[chucho]

Thanks for responding. Yeah I'm not sure what I can do now that we already paid for it. We didn't think about it as 'signing over the right to dispute' before we signed and paid, even though it seemed ridiculous how much he charged for that job.. I hope we can get some of the money back. I mean it was all labor charge. He charged $100 for the metal, which I'm fine with, but $750 for labor...?

thats where those shops make their money. labor not parts. no real advice on this though...just sucks

[m0dd3d1]

Honestly, you shouldn't have given up any $. If you can, void the check. He made a verbal agreement, and you can go to court and it'll holdup. Even if he was out "sick" with w/e surgery he had, he'd have to provide documents as well as if he made an agreemen with you, and he was out sick, he has to relay that message to his crew. It's called "responsibility" and he should pay the price for it, literally. Also, I would report them. People like that man give all the great mechanics a $hitty name. I hate it.

-Triscuit

PS- Chucho's right when he says it's all in the labor. I used to drive cars for a living at a collision center, and labor was the biggest thing. Granted, the mechanics were awesome, but they were making $$ like noone's business! You've got to watch out or even ask what they charge hourly for labor, they won't be insulted, and if they are, then they're cheating bastards!

This post has been edited by m0dd3d1: Jan 19, 2007 - 4:19 AM

[AMCMoe]

Thanks for the responses. Chucho, I agree with you, thats where they make all their profit and since it was their mistake not to get back to me with the estimate or anything that they should pay for their mistake. But I already signed the check

m0dd3d1 thanks a lot. I can void the check for $30 I believe. My dad went into the shop last night and told him that the least he can do is to hold onto the check until next week so it doesn't bounce. He says he will, but I still want to void it and take him to court. I just don't want to be stuck having to pay the $845 + court fees and then him sue me for not paying him, etc. Thanks for the input I'll be calling some other shops today to see what their estimate would be to replace the floorboards and move forward from there.

Adam

[giang723]

i hate to say it, but u shouldn't hav paid for the cost, cause if u go to court, he could make it look like u agreed to do the repairs by paying him the cheque, i reckon that's where he'll hav an advantage, hate to say it but u might hav to pay it out. If u didn't pay for it, u might still have a chance in winning, but yeah, not much u can do really, that's what i think

[Rayme]

That shop is a scam..100$ for a metal sheet is BS! I paid like 30$ for a large 4x4 sheet to do it myself...and they probably have it at a discount.

[jgreening]

Void the check if its not too late. Then negotiate a fair price. If its too late, your only option is to sue him in small claims court. His actions are totally inappropriate.

[AMCMoe]

Thanks a lot for the responses. jgreening, I told my mom what you said and she voided the check. I guess we're going to go in to negotiate a price tonight. If he's not willing to change the price any lower (he dropped the original price of $980 down to $845. Still a complete rip off.) then what would my other options be? Wait for him to hire a lawyer to sue me and try to win? Would he be able to sue for us voiding the check? I went out to my Jeep today in the daylight to take some pictures. I'm not sure which of these are my favorite.

Whether it's the interior plastics not put back together/broken tabs-


Or if it's the broken piece inside the e-brake cover piece that holds the little rubber boot in place inside-


Or maybe it's the seat bolt he broke and didn't replace, a screw in the door sill cover he stripped and just didn't put back in, or the seat belt pieces he didn't put back together, etc. 18 and a half hours of labor and thats the kind of quality it is? I'm sure. My dad called some other shops this morning and they gave a time frame of 7-8 hours for the same amount of work.

I'll keep this updated. Thank you guys very much for your input I really appreciate it.

[jgreening]

If he's not willing to change the price any lower (he dropped the original price of $980 down to $845. Still a complete rip off.) then what would my other options be? Wait for him to hire a lawyer to sue me and try to win? Would he be able to sue for us voiding the check?

Yes. That is another option. A third option is to give him a check for what you think is fair. If you use this option, he may be less likely to sue you.

If he has something in writing that there will be a charge for returned checks, he could try to collect that too in addition to the other amount owing. I have a difficulty believing that any judge would order you to pay the entire amount given the facts here.

I would use the other estimates that you obtained to negotiate a fair price. $200 is probably low given the 7-8 hour estimates you have received.

Good luck.

Jay

[pure_dx]

should've never paid him the full $845 in the first place

if it took them this long to get an estimate, get your car outta there! just say, "I'm coming to get my car" to the answering machine and record every conversation over the phone (that's what i did). Or, make sure you can prove that you've called them that many times(your phone bill record will work), the more proof you have, the better.(if you ever went to court)

and lastly, if a shop acts shady, just say "f*ck them*, and dont ever go there again, tell everyone you know to not go there. Shops likes that kinda stuff =]

This post has been edited by pure_dx: Jan 19, 2007 - 1:07 PM