2nd or 3rd gen 3sgte?, ST185 or ST205? Options

[Drolius]

Hi All,

Hope all is well...was wondering about the opinions on either going with the 2nd or 3rd generation 3sgte on a 5sfe ---> 3sgte swap???


Thanks!

[Hanyo]

simple: newer = better.

[Silver94CelicaOw...]

I see it as:

2nd gen 3SGTE = Older, cheaper, more abundant, easy access to parts...but still nets you great power.

3rd gen 3SGTE = Newer, mechanicly superior, more power, easier wiring, typically more expensive, harder to find parts.



Can't really go wrong with either one....reason I chose my 3rd gen is because I knew it would be capable of reaching my power goals long-term with simple modifications, and its newer and more rare.

[Rusty]

3Gen 3S-GTE was the most powerful Celica engine to date (250HP @ fly) yes?
...I'd go for that


This post has been edited by Rusty: Mar 15, 2008 - 4:34 PM

[presure2]

3Gen 3S-GTE was the most powerful Celica engine to date (250HP @ fly) yes?
...I'd go for that

"celica" engine yes.
IIRC the caldina (4th gen 3sgte) was rated @ 265hp.

[Rusty]

... see I chose my words carefully but can you drop that 4th Gen in?

so what Gen GTE have you decided on?

[Defgeph]

Listen to all those that own a 3sgte.

3rd gen all the way.

[x_itchy_b_x]

^ word. unless your going to mod the crap out of it. then a gen 2 would be my choice. 3rd gen if you just wanna swap it and turn the boost up.

[presure2]

... see I chose my words carefully but can you drop that 4th Gen in?

so what Gen GTE have you decided on?

yes, 4th gen drops in just like the rest. wiring can be a bit of a hassle, but IIRC tweek can do that up pretty easily.


i would say it depends on goals, and money.

for a 300whp goal 3rd gen all day.

for 350+ i would prolly go 2nd gen. , just cause the money you save going with the 2nd gen can be used for mods.

[aznpnoiboi55]

makes a lot of sence for the majority of those who have the 2nd gen

has anyone tried racing with the 2nd gen swap?
can it keep up with those evos,sti,srt4...ect ?
need to know how much potential this swap has?

[lagos]

makes a lot of sence for the majority of those who have the 2nd gen

has anyone tried racing with the 2nd gen swap?
can it keep up with those evos,sti,srt4...ect ?
need to know how much potential this swap has?

Its a mid 13s to low 14s car (depending on driver skill and alignment of the planets).

[aznpnoiboi55]

what about 10s can the 2nd gen go that far? maybe +more?

[simplyturbo]

like everyone has said, determine your power goals first. A gen 2 with a few mods (exhaust, intake, ct20b, boost controller, FCD, and alcohol injection) can do 280-300whp @20 psi with the stock ECU. Then it gets expensive to achieve more because you have to get some kind of ECU mod.....whether it be a rom tune or a Stand Alone with matching fuel and turbo for either....= $$$$. A gen 3 with a few mods (exhaust, intake, boost controller, and water injection) at 18PSI is 300whp, but can go up to 360whp on the stock ECU and fuel, you just need to upgrade the turbo. If you want more then 350whp, then gen 2 all the way, the money and the rarity of the gen 3 just isn't worth it any more, you actually wind of loosing a lot more money and getting absolutely nothing extra out of it.

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=56752&hl=

[Silver94CelicaOw...]

I would actually go out on a limb and say that the 3rd gen is just as good as the 2nd gen, if not better, for making power if your goals are to make 350+ horsepower. Heres why-


- Stock injectors are 540cc and will flow plenty of fuel for most aftermarket turbo setups below ~400hp. Lots of Gen 3 builds in the 350-375hp range on MR2OC have utilized factory injectors with a tuned ECU/Power FC and Walbro 255 lph with great success.

- Revised fuel rail will flow more fuel.

- Metal headgasket from the factory, capable of holding steady under more boost.

- Better oil cooling, great for an aftermarket turbo.

- Redesigned head features more aggressive camshaft profiles on both the exhaust and intake sides, and larger intake manifold runners for better power potential from a larger turbo.

- Bigger throttle body.

- Piston rings are a revised design over 2nd generation motor.

- MAP sensor can be utilized with aftermarket ECU, instead of having to retain AFM or convert over to internal MAP.



Chances are though you would build the bottom end on either motor if you planned on pushing much more power than 375hp, but the block dimensions are identical between both engines so you could use US available forged pistons and rods in the 3rd gen just like you would use in a 2nd gen.

I think stock for stock though, I would trust the bottom end of my 3rd gen with ARP headstuds making that sort of power over a 2nd gen block. And the revised top-end will support that range of power really well in stock form without touching a thing on the 3rd gen as well....2nd gen will reqire larger injectors, fuel rail, TVIS deletion, and at least some ARP studs to make the motor physically ready for that much power.


In the end, you'd probably spend more money getting a gen 2 up to snuff than you would getting a gen 3 and just mounting up a more capable turbo.