BEAMS BLACK, RED, AND GREY TOP Options

[Dragondog]

OK WELL I DID A LITTLE RESEARCH LEARNED A LITTLE BOUT BEAMS RED TOP AND BLACK TOP FROM WHAT I READ BLACK PUT OUT MORE THEN RED BUT RED HAS MORE PERFORMANCE UPGRADES AVALABLE IS THAT TRUE?......WHAT I DONT GET IS SOME SAY BLACK TOP IS NOT DUAL VVTI AND RED IS BUT OTHERS SAY BLACK TOP IS MAYBE IT DEPENDS ON THE GEN..THE BLACK TOP I WAS LOOKING AT COMES FROM A ALTEZZA.........WHAT DO YOU RECOMEND OUT OF THE 2? AND IF U HAVE MORE INFO PLZ LET KNOW...I DID A LITTLE MORE READIN AND WHAT I GOT WAS BLACK TOP WAS OUT IN 97 THEN RED TOP IN 98 BOTH DUAL VVT-I EXCEPT THE GREY TOP WITCH IS COLOR BLACK BUT CALLED GREY TOP IT ONLY HAS 1 VVT-I.......AND TO ANSWER MY OWN QUESTION (IS THERE A VTECH FOR OUR CARS)...YES AND NO THE DUAL VVTI BEAMS IS BASICLY A TOYOTA VERSION OF THE HONDAS VTECH......I AM STILL TRYING TO FIGURE OUT THE DIFF BETWEEN THE DUAL BLACK AND THE DUAL RED TOP.......AND I KNOW ITS ONLY A DUAL UNLESS IT SAYS DUAL VVT-I RIGHT NEXT TO BEAMS

[petna]

As far as I know, the black top wont fit in a 6gc mate. I'm sure someone can confirm though

[Valo666]

Holy caps....^^ this is true. The black top will fit into an Altezza, or an IS as they are known over here, or any RWD toyota that is front engine mounted *ie not MR2*.

As for the dual VVTI in a red top, they only came with single stage from what i know. And yes even though they are powerful motors, they do have limited performance backup.

and regarding power, there is the grey top at the bottom. They came out of JDM Rav4s, the Redtops came out of late model MR2s and SS-III celicas, and the blacktop is out of the Altezza RS200.

If your thinking of doing this swap, be prepaired for some headaches. You are gonna need some one to translate the wiring diagrams, your gonna need to find a full Beams clip or motor set with eveyr thing you will need, aswell as a Beams gauge cluster or tach. There is a member on here called Outsider, he lives in Alberta and did the full swap into his 6th gen. Him or Dr. Tweak would be the best two people to get info from, they have both done the swap, but Tweak did it in a 5th gen convert.

[Dragondog]

what does coomer have or had

[Jeunesse]

what does coomer have or had

20 Valve AE101 4A-GE

[Dragondog]

compare to beams? red top

[Valo666]

the 20V is a 1.6L 4 cylinder with 4 throttle bodies in 1 intake plenum. Pretty much its a little rev happy 1.6L that puts out somethin like 150HP. Its a good idea for a smaller car, or a swap for an ST model, but since you have a GT, your gonna come into alot more time and money to swap it in. Also with the power coming out of the 20V, your probably only gonna notice about 5 or 10 hp more then the motor you have in your car right now.

If you want power and keep it N/A, you can do the BEAMS swap, but be prepared to spend alot of $ on buyin the motor and swapping it. *Red tops run between $2500 for just the motor to about $5700 for a full clip*. Or you could do a non-VVTI 3SGE motor like the ones out of the european and JDM celica GTs. They push about 170HP with just intakes and headers, and are much easier to come by.

[lagos]

that puts out somethin like 120HP

Fixed!

[goferris]

noob Q but why won't the black top fit in our car?
can't you just swap the RWD tranny for a FWD tranny or mate it up to the s54?
this isn't anything i'm planning on doing but i just wanted to know. how much different could the motor itself be from the redtop?
the main diff i can think of is the tranny.
also doesn't the black top put out more HP than the redtop?

edit:nvm

This post has been edited by goferris: Mar 30, 2008 - 12:05 PM

[Dragondog]

ONE THING I CANT FIGURE OUT IS CAN TURBO BE INSTALLED ON THE RED TOP 3SGE

[Valo666]

enough with the caps locks already. Yes i can, any motor can be turboed. I have a friend with a 1.0L 3 Cylinder Geo thats turboed. It all depends on how much power you want to be producing and reliablity. As far as i know there arent any bolt up turbo kits for a red top. Personaly, the red top is a great N/A motor, i would keep it that way.

[95CelicaST]

that puts out somethin like 130HP

Fixed!

Fixed for you

kthxbye!

[95CelicaST]

OK WELL I DID A LITTLE RESEARCH LEARNED A LITTLE BOUT BEAMS RED TOP AND BLACK TOP FROM WHAT I READ BLACK PUT OUT MORE THEN RED BUT RED HAS MORE PERFORMANCE UPGRADES AVALABLE IS THAT TRUE?......WHAT I DONT GET IS SOME SAY BLACK TOP IS NOT DUAL VVTI AND RED IS BUT OTHERS SAY BLACK TOP IS MAYBE IT DEPENDS ON THE GEN..THE BLACK TOP I WAS LOOKING AT COMES FROM A ALTEZZA.........WHAT DO YOU RECOMEND OUT OF THE 2? AND IF U HAVE MORE INFO PLZ LET KNOW...I DID A LITTLE MORE READIN AND WHAT I GOT WAS BLACK TOP WAS OUT IN 97 THEN RED TOP IN 98 BOTH DUAL VVT-I EXCEPT THE GREY TOP WITCH IS COLOR BLACK BUT CALLED GREY TOP IT ONLY HAS 1 VVT-I.......AND TO ANSWER MY OWN QUESTION (IS THERE A VTECH FOR OUR CARS)...YES AND NO THE DUAL VVTI BEAMS IS BASICLY A TOYOTA VERSION OF THE HONDAS VTECH......I AM STILL TRYING TO FIGURE OUT THE DIFF BETWEEN THE DUAL BLACK AND THE DUAL RED TOP.......AND I KNOW ITS ONLY A DUAL UNLESS IT SAYS DUAL VVT-I RIGHT NEXT TO BEAMS

[Dragondog]

my bad with the caps.......lol 95 u cracked me up

[GMan]

> Mar 30, 2008 - 1:05 PM
> goferris
> '99 GT Hatchback
> From Provo, UT USA
> noob Q but why won't the black top fit in our car?

The Altezza intake manifold would hit the firewall.
You could (Maybe?) mount a Caldina set up ?

Regards;

[Edophus]

lots of random info in this thread!

beams engines are nothing like vtec, who would want vtec anyway

forget the black top beams from the altezza, it just isnt worth the hassle, you would have to use the intake/exhaust manifolds, water elbow, altenator etc from the redtop, so just use a redtop/greytop. The blacktop exhaust vvti controler will try and occupy the same space as an engine mount, so that wont work either.

as for aftermarket parts, most internal parts for the blacktop fit with the exception of cams, but if you use a blacktop head with aftermarket cams, it will fit on the redtop/greytop bottom end, but you'll have to ditch vvti and go aftermarket ecu, no great loss though. External parts wont fit because of the orientation of the engine.

a beams in good working order that hasnt been buggered up with a crappy intake will make close to its quoted 197bhp.

If you want to go turbo then just get any other 3s-ge/3s-gte and use it, will be cheaper and easier. otherwise your really just being silly unless you plan on making the most powerfull turbo 3s engine ever, then maybe stretch to using the beams as a starting block.

quite honestly unless your looking for an NA engine that your just going to leave alone and enjoy once it is in then forget it, beams are fiddly engines that require a lot of knowlodge if your going to mod them, just go get a 3s-gte and be done with it.