5SFE Block. Old or new?, Going 5SGTE Options

[RichieRichJP]

After doing a bunch of research and deciding with what to do with my set up, I've decided to go 5sgte rather than 5sfte. The reasons should be obvious since I'm going for a performance build.
In recent weeks, I've done a lot of reading and made a few phone calls and found out that there are two versions of the 5sfe block. Great.
Now between both Camry's and Celica's, what years are the older version blocks and which ones are the newer versions?

[presure2]

pre 92 blocks are considered "old" all the 94+ are the newer ones.

[RichieRichJP]

Ok, that's what one guy told me on mr2oc, but he said the only difference is the knock sensor. On the other hand, I've been reading it's the water passages too therefor I face "extra challenges" to get the 3sgte head to bolt up

This post has been edited by RichieRichJP: Oct 19, 2008 - 4:22 PM

[alltracman78]

90/91 blocks didn't come with a knock sensor, 92^ did.
I'm not sure if there were any other improvements to the block itself after 92 or not.
I'd get the newest one possible, hopefully less wear 'n tear.

Camrys also have balance shafts while MR2/Celicas don't. All Camry blocks will have the knock sensor.

The balance shaft isn't part of the block per say, but the crank does have a massive gear to drive the shafts, so IMO pick up a Celica/MR2 one if you can.

[RichieRichJP]

Thanks for the info guys. Hopefully I still don't have to tear the damn motor down

[relyks95gt]

whats the diffrence between 5sfte and 5sgte?

[samir0189]

whats the diffrence between 5sfte and 5sgte?

the difference is the camshafts. In Toyota's engine naming system, G denotes that the engine has wide angle, performance cams. F means that the engine has economy, narrow angle camshafts.

[stephen_lee]

whats the diffrence between 5sfte and 5sgte?

the difference is the camshafts. In Toyota's engine naming system, G denotes that the engine has wide angle, performance cams. F means that the engine has economy, narrow angle camshafts.

I believe its the angle of the valves, and port sizes. while the cams are different too.

[relyks95gt]

how do i know which one is mines?

[samir0189]

stephen_lee- I did not know that .. learned something new for today Thank you.

how do i know which one is mines?

you have a 5SFE. F=economy.

The OP intends to convert his to a G=performance and add a turbo, which would make it a 5SGTE.

[Smaay]

you are both right, but its more than that, the entire head is different, size of the valves, angle of the valves, the cams, just to name a few

[GotToyota]

I'm confused, what car had the 5SGE?

[DEATH]

I'm confused, what car had the 5SGE?

None - it's a home made hybrid job using the better parts from the 5S and 3S. Again, old terminology here.

[GotToyota]

I gotcha. Why not just use the 5S block with the 3S head? Or is this what it's referring to?

[samir0189]

I gotcha. Why not just use the 5S block with the 3S head? Or is this what it's referring to?

I think so. Some time ago one of my cousins <-[acutal, not my "yooo CUZ!"] that does alot of work on supras told me i should look into getting a 3s head for more power. So i guess that if you slapped that on the 5s it becomes something like a 3sgte stroker motor, cause the 5s is basically a bored/stroked 3s block? Am i on the right track anyone?

[bslik]

im actually rebuilding my 5s block right now to go on with this "FRANKENSTEIN" swap. people will argue that its not possible, 5s is not made for turbo or it wont fit. but if you do it right and with the right parts, it is very well possible and actually has been done by quite a few people.

its just a matter of how u go about doing it, not so much taking your 5s and throwing on a 3sgte head. (NOT PLUG AND PLAY!) its more of an idea of take a complete 3sgte motor swap and plug your 5s block in there. mainly because u need all the parts from the 3s to work with the head and turbo.

ive talked to ice23q a member who has done it......ughhhh actually just look at the thread
http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...79&hl=5sgte

[DEATH]

Basically you have the right idea however there is so much more to it than just slapping on a 3S head [Otherwise everyone here would have one already - or a 4A head for the 7A guys]. For an idea - read member Ice23q [Pretty sure that's the name?]'s build thread.

^^^HA beat my by a few seconds^^^

This post has been edited by DEATH: Oct 21, 2008 - 1:12 PM

[samir0189]

Yeah I think I've read somewhere on here that things don't line up 100% correctly. I didn't know that you needed a full 3sgte to have all the necessary parts and that it was more of a block swap from a 5s. That makes it sound not-so-easy

And I think I've read through that thread, the signature looks familiar, and i recall going through quite a few pages. Quite an amazing build I might add.

[RichieRichJP]

I called a few places and asked on several forums and it's apparently very doable and for Camry guys like myself, is cost efficient vs. doing a full 3rd gen5 3SGTE swap.
The two garages I called, EngineLogics and ATS Racing, both said there's a BIG misunderstanding as to how difficult, or should I say easy, the swap is to perform.
From the information I have been gathering, the two different blocks are really the same, except some come with a forged crank and knock sensor, and the water jackets will either fit directly (1992-prior) or it will be a hit and miss (1993+ 5sfe). So only a couple hundred dollars of machining out the water jackets and head gasket to match the holes will make them fit. That is directly from machinists who've built and have 5SGTE cars from both of those garages. To answer someone above, the 5SGTE is a 3SGTE cylinder head with a 5SFE block. Some people say that power is less achievable but that's stupid. Simply go to raceeng.com and order a set of 3SGTE/5SFE connecting rods and pistons and install. Reason being that the 5SFE block is better to use is like I said forged crank (for some) and a larger displacement. As well as that it's no different really from a 3SGTE. Everyone knows that. You can easily get those same rods and pistons from raceeng.com and install them in the 3SGTE block and come up with the same bore and displacement, but the stroke may be shorter.
The only parts you need to make the head fit (excluding the head gasket issue) are pretty much just the timing belt components, idler pulleys, water/oil pump... The obvious are the map sensor, harness, ecu and such. All in all, I believe it's an easy setup to go with.

[DEATH]

Those two companies [Both of which I have had dealings with in the past] are known for doing that particular motor build. In the Case of Engine Logics it was ChrisK's whole claim to fame for quite some time until he got into the Subarus. So is it doable - of course - we already said that. Is it feasible for 9/10's of the people on either your Camry forum or this Celica forum? No. Most people do not have the mechanical skill and machining experience to successfully do that [hell I hate to say it but half the people don't even have the research skills to know what to machine].
My point was and is - it's not just "slapping" a 3S head on a 5S block and calling it a day.