FWD to AWD? Options

[badman322]

So someone told me today that it's a fairly straightforward project to convert my FWD 94 GT to and AWD. He said the chassis is the same, just need the drive train, differential and axles. Is this true? And if so, is it really that easy? I'm sure there is some info on the forums already, but couldn't easily find it.

[SupraKid]

No, that friend is full of sh!t. It requires a lot of custom work, including differential mounts, redoing the spare tire well and gas tank as well as much more. Look up Pipes, he was one of the first to do the awd swap, but its not worth it IMO for most people.

[easternpiro1]

^^^^THIS. be careful who you talk to in the car scene. as 99.9% of the people that go to car meets, or are in the import scene know NOTHING about celicas.


if you got the $ to do such a AWD swap, you may as well buy pipes car. i saw that he's selling it (not sure if its sold already)

[jordisonjr]

Look up the rally thread as well.
There was a member, and his nmae started of with CW, can't remember the rest of it, but someone jump in if you know his full user name.
But anyways, he swapped a 3s in and converted to AWD im pretty sure, for rally racing.

[kurt95gt]

Ill do ya one better
http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=76086
Thats the thread your looking for

[ricochet1490]

But even he had to grind the block on both his 5sfe and his 3sge non beams to get the e153f tranny to mount up.

Then there's gt4 suspension..... brakes..... struts.....ugh

I pitty the fool who does all of that and keeps the 5sfe powerplant

[czwalga]

Thats me... yep nothing bolts up, all custom. Didn't cost much though if you do everything yourself.


Also, I hate to talk bad about other member especially someone who i guess pioneered the AWD swap, but after doing it and seeing his build it's not done correctly. I would not recommend buying pipes car. The driveline angles are all incorrect, welds are more than questionable. It's one thing for him it's his car knows the ins and outs of it. Something breaks he can fix it. It's another to inherit the car. Like I said I really don't want to put down anyones work, he put a ton of work into the car, but I also don't want someone to buy something and not know what they're getting.

[crankine3]

Also, I hate to talk bad about other member especially someone who i guess pioneered the AWD swap, but after doing it and seeing his build it's not done correctly. I would not recommend buying pipes car. The driveline angles are all incorrect, welds are more than questionable. It's one thing for him it's his car knows the ins and outs of it. Something breaks he can fix it. It's another to inherit the car. Like I said I really don't want to put down anyones work, he put a ton of work into the car, but I also don't want someone to buy something and not know what they're getting.

Did you take pics? You could always write a second how-to, give your experiences, and let those willing folks know both. (or any help?)

Eh, back to the point, it is cheaper to buy someone else's unless you are a god in the car shop, you have access to a car shop, and you have decent free time (no kids, no second job, no weekend jail). More celica's are listed elsewhere than here, take a look.

This post has been edited by crankine3: Mar 7, 2012 - 10:12 PM

[czwalga]

Kurt posted my entire build thread, many many pictures.



If you keep the driveshaft straight coming off the transmission, the differential is going to sit waay to low. There's a CV joint in the driveshaft to account for the different heights of the differential and transmission output shaft. I spent hours aligning everything before I started making mounts.

The wrong way in my opinion as to what some people have done is take the GT4 mounts and just weld them in. However the GT4 rear floor sits like 4 inches higher so it's just not that simple as welding the GT4 mounts in.

The goal to have your axle cv joints to have as close to a 0 degree angle as possible sitting at ride height. This is not always possible if you lower the car a bit, however if your differential is already sitting 4" lower than where it should, then you lower the car. You're talking some pretty extreme angles.


I've beat the living **** out of my car this year, 4 stage rallys, around 600 racing miles and I haven't had any problems related to the AWD swap.

This post has been edited by czwalga: Mar 7, 2012 - 10:19 PM

[badman322]

Thanks all for your input. Definitely more work/money than I'm willing to put into it at this point. I was looking under the car just yesterday to take a quick look, and sure enough, first obstacle is the exhaust, gotta move that, etc etc etc. No thanks, when I'm done with this one I'll just look for a GT4 to play with next.

[kurt95gt]

Good luck youll have to get one thats been converted.
The gt4 isnt available in the usa

[badman322]

Good luck youll have to get one thats been converted.
The gt4 isnt available in the usa

Duh. I keep forgetting that. It's easy to forget what lives where on this forum since it's worldwide.

[3WayStunna]

Kurt posted my entire build thread, many many pictures.



If you keep the driveshaft straight coming off the transmission, the differential is going to sit waay to low. There's a CV joint in the driveshaft to account for the different heights of the differential and transmission output shaft. I spent hours aligning everything before I started making mounts.

The wrong way in my opinion as to what some people have done is take the GT4 mounts and just weld them in. However the GT4 rear floor sits like 4 inches higher so it's just not that simple as welding the GT4 mounts in.

The goal to have your axle cv joints to have as close to a 0 degree angle as possible sitting at ride height. This is not always possible if you lower the car a bit, however if your differential is already sitting 4" lower than where it should, then you lower the car. You're talking some pretty extreme angles.


I've beat the living **** out of my car this year, 4 stage rallys, around 600 racing miles and I haven't had any problems related to the AWD swap.

EDIT: Found my answer....but still have another question that i cant answer...The part where you welded on your mounts for the center driveshaft...what floor panel were they on, or where do they NATURALLY sit on the floor pan of the GT4?

This post has been edited by 3WayStunna: Mar 10, 2012 - 10:13 AM

[czwalga]

Kurt posted my entire build thread, many many pictures.



If you keep the driveshaft straight coming off the transmission, the differential is going to sit waay to low. There's a CV joint in the driveshaft to account for the different heights of the differential and transmission output shaft. I spent hours aligning everything before I started making mounts.

The wrong way in my opinion as to what some people have done is take the GT4 mounts and just weld them in. However the GT4 rear floor sits like 4 inches higher so it's just not that simple as welding the GT4 mounts in.

The goal to have your axle cv joints to have as close to a 0 degree angle as possible sitting at ride height. This is not always possible if you lower the car a bit, however if your differential is already sitting 4" lower than where it should, then you lower the car. You're talking some pretty extreme angles.


I've beat the living **** out of my car this year, 4 stage rallys, around 600 racing miles and I haven't had any problems related to the AWD swap.

EDIT: Found my answer....but still have another question that i cant answer...The part where you welded on your mounts for the center driveshaft...what floor panel were they on, or where do they NATURALLY sit on the floor pan of the GT4?

Once I lined everything up, I just built mounts off of the side of the tunnel to the exact position I needed.

As far as where it sits naturally, I'm not sure on this just speculating. If you strip the car down to the shell. There's 3 sections of unibody that combine and are spot welded together to make up the frame of the car.

I believe the front section is the same between the GT4 and all celica, but the mid and rear section are completely different molds. They are similar but have a lot of differences also.

[3WayStunna]

Hey thanks for the reply and your response helped to validate alot of information for me. I was asking the original question though, because you are correct in that the mid and rear sections are different in part to accomodate the different front floor pan. But i was most curious about where the mounts for the center driveshaft were fixated at. But I guess ill answer that myself when im back in japan.. Thanks again!

[Guest]

I know I'm on the wrong topic, but I need help: I'm driving a Celica T20 1.8 with 115PS, I know you're all laughing and thinking how sweet, he's driving a little Celica, but I'm a student, so I can't afford too expensive cars. The point is, that I want more power and now I'm asking you, what to do. Are there affordable and LEGAL kits to turn up the small-one or should I think of buying a GT-FOUR? In fact I'd like to have a GT-FOUR, but I don't know how high the fun factor is with an AWD, because it is pretty high with mine (eventhough it's not very powerful). So, I'm asking you: Tuning kit for the small-one or buy a GT-FOUR? Thanks for replying.

[SwissFerdi]

Tuning kit for the small-one or buy a GT-FOUR? Thanks for replying.

This depends on your budget. Modifications to the 7A-FE can be done for small money, whereas trading up to another car will obviously mean a larger investment.

Do not expect any significant power gains from your current engine; fully optimizing intake and exhaust flow will bring you up between 120 and 125 horsepower. Otherwise, you can slap a turbocharger on it, but at that point you may as well invest a bit and make the trade to the GT-4.

Welcome to the forum, by the way.

[pipes]

ok i guess i should defend my car.......

the rear ends has been redone since those pics were put up.. they were redone i belive in that same week in sept the car would have the the same rearend welded in for 5 years the first 2 years of this cars life it was driven basically everyday unless there was crazy snow and parked inside whenever it was wet... its been to new jersey new york conneticut maine and canada.. its been taken auto x its been street raced its been through highway pulls all with the same read end and driveline.... i rebuilt my engine turned up boost etc and only drive my car once in awhile now the only driveline problem ive had is the one time i launched it and broke an axel wich i thought was my rear end i destroyed my car is lowered to the point were it is annoying... it drives straight from 15 to 130 it may not have been abused like a rally car but its been around awhile. if i do say myself not am i the first rhd awd (together not seperate ) i am the longest running awd swap on this site... those pics in question are simply old news because my car has yet to break


Oops 4 years lol sorry just reread my post

Lol also my sentence structure sucks i was on my phone

This post has been edited by pipes: Mar 21, 2012 - 7:15 PM

[DavidCole]

So someone told me today that it's a fairly straightforward project to convert my FWD 94 GT to and AWD. He said the chassis is the same, just need the drive train, differential and axles. Is this true? And if so, is it really that easy? I'm sure there is some info on the forums already, but couldn't easily find it.

The wrong way in my opinion as to what some people have done is take the GT4 mounts and just weld them in. However the GT4 rear floor sits like 4 inches higher so it's just not that simple as welding the GT4 mounts in.

[3WayStunna]

Im surprised nobody has never though to just weld in the GT4 floorpans and such...much easier it seems.....esp if you got a front clip with the rear subframe etc.....