7afe build, lets see if its worth it Options

[celica74]

So a little history. Have had my 94 st for over three years now. Has had two motors in it. Stock one was neglected so i replaced it with a 95 with half the miles. All the car has done to it is the basics. Short ram intake, exhaust with ebay header, dropped 4 inchs on drop zones(cheap rout i know but im happy with them. Voxx 7.5 rims running 205/40-17s. I love thos car. Cant believe i almost got rid of it for a genesis coupe. Havent done anything to the car in the past year because i bought a bike. But now im back in the car game and ready to spice her up. Have considered many options on what i could do to make then realiable eco friendly cheap slower then a single cam civic motor some pep. Yes ive gone over the 3sgte and 3sge swaps. Honestly there not for me. I almost turbos my car 2 years ago but lacked funds and patience. So the other day i took a drive up to virgia to visit a fellow 6gc owner(or have a one. Hes parting his car). I pics up some goodies from him for a good price. Dont wanna spoil anything. Pics will be up soon on what i got and what my intentions are.

This post has been edited by celica74: Aug 29, 2012 - 11:43 AM

[celica74]

Ok as promised here are some pictures of what ive been doing to the car in the past week.



Realized the rear motor mount was bad so i had a blast pulling the old one out



this is what it look like. the rubber was completely shot, i could pull the metal out of it.

Also my driver front fenders clear coat was shot, keep in mine the age of the car, 18 year old paint. Surprised its held up this long. So i decided to experiment with my lack of body work and painting skills.



sanded her down rear good.


Masked it off real well.



after two coats of primer.



a couple base coats, the last one i did i make it nice and thick.




and a clear coat or two.
Overall im not displeased with it, hard to tell due to the photos. Now all i have to do is to decide if i wanna paint the whole car like that. I do like the kinda flat black look.

I also was bored one day and had a spare 7a intake manifold under the house that i brought out. One member mentions removing material from it to open it up some and create better flow. So i figured id go HAM on it and see what i could do.



A carbon composite disk on an angle grinder make quick work of the aluminum. If you know what the upper manifold looks like youll realize how much i took off.


As for the lower manifold if you know what they look like, they have high ridges and notches im guessing to guild the air into the runners. I took as much out as i could reach.
I wouldnt expect this to make much performance gain if any. We all know its not a honda and things like this would most likely hurt it more then help it, but like i said i had a spare laying around and decided to give it a try. Havent installed it yet. When i do ill report back.

As for my trip up to virgina the other day, i did bring some things back with me. Reason being my motor is starting to piss oil past the rings and burning a quart every 700 miles. Common problem in the 7a's along with the valve stem seals going bad. I dont have time to pull the motor and do a rebuild. I need my car everyday for work. So i decided to get this.




Thanks to "boostedricer"/brandon, i now have a 94 7afe complete block, head, and 2.5inch full exhaust. Only has 160k on it. He also had some pigtails i needed(alternator voltage regulator, and the coolant temp. sensor for the ecu). Both im assuming chaffed off due to the bad motor mount.

And here are just a couple of old pics of my car.



Pretty much how the engine bay sits right now, i do have a different intake tube on it, and the battery is in the trunk.
And heres a picture of the raleigh meet we had im thinking two years ago.



So my plans are this. Taking the motor i bought and stripping it down, measuring everything and see what i need in terms of bearing, if i have to send it off the the machine shop and what not. Going to be doing a complete rebuild. After searching for hours i finally found a conformation that putting in 4agze 8.5:pistons in a 7a will increase the comp. to 11-11.2:1 comp. See where im going with this? I wanna build an n/a 7afe as no one really has done a good write up before. I know in order to use those pistons ill have to convert the rods to full floating. Will need some advice on how that will be tackled. Im also going to be looking into a port and polish, a valve job, and ill have to see the rates for getting the cams ground. Any other ideas on how to make this 7a a little more power will be thought over.

This post has been edited by celica74: May 13, 2012 - 8:31 PM

[richee3]

I did a price check a while back and Crower Cams wanted $11/lobe for a regrind. Just to get you started

[celica74]

I did a price check a while back and Crower Cams wanted $11/lobe for a regrind. Just to get you started

Seems reasonable, thankyou. Ill have to look into it.

[al94st]

Cool stuff, glad to see you got another engine to mess with. BTW that meet was only like a year ago I think.

[SwissFerdi]

Hey man, that's quite nice. Tell me, how did the exhaust header change the 7A? I'm also curious for the results of "clearing" the intake manifold.

[celica74]

Hey man, that's quite nice. Tell me, how did the exhaust header change the 7A? I'm also curious for the results of "clearing" the intake manifold.

Honestly the header only change the torque range. Moved it up in the rpm. Cant tell if it added any power. Dyno results from someone would be nice. Like i said intake manifold isnt on it. When it is ill post my thoughts.

[celica74]

Cool stuff, glad to see you got another engine to mess with. BTW that meet was only like a year ago I think.

Yea nice not having to rush it. And i couldnt rememberwhen it was. Very excited for this weekend.

[celica74]

Little update. Getting the engine on a stand later this week before the meet this saturday. Hopefully gunna get things done to the car before then aswell. Just finished up re nightshadding my lights and a clear coat. Gunna work on the hollowed intake tomorrow. Ill poster videos for sound and speedometer purposes. Then if i have time install the 2.5 exhaust. Also been thinkin about the 7a build. No more power expected from a high comp setup then 40hp as described in edos build thread. Considering going stock for boosting later.

[ricochet1490]

I'm probably different in my thinking... but I say do something unique.

My fav threads are the 7a supercharged engine thread from a while back
Czwalgas Rally thread
etc. because they're different
Things that aren't the norm.... the gt4 front with 3sgte swap is uninteresting to me.... and that's not to step on anyone's toes, just my views.
It's why I'm doing RHD beams... not just beams swapped LHD
I'd even consider rhd beams power with awd if I could get the parts at the right price.

Back to the thread. I say DO IT.It would be interesting! a 11.5 compression ratio, with a high quality head gasket with arp studs 7a... cam regrind.. it would be awesome
I mean a cam regrind on the 5s adds 20-30hp when tuned right...
If your intake change works... that'll be cool and +power

if a 7afe gets 34mpg by itself.... imagine what +50hp would feel like? It'd be a whole new animal, fun to drive, and the ^comp ratio and better exhaust, header, and intake could mean 37mpg if you could stay out of the gas and get it TUNED correctly on a dyno because preignition would be a serious concern.... but heck, you'd be unique and it'd still be N/A... which means generally more reliable and the cost would be lower than a turbo as well I would imagine...

just my .02

This post has been edited by ricochet1490: May 15, 2012 - 11:29 PM

[celica74]

Well wasnt about to get the exhaust on today. Gotta do some cutting and welding. Did try pulling the gas tank to allow it to fit but that didnt work. Did pull the fuel pump just out of curiosity. The pump sock was brown. I still had the 255lph pump up in my room and it came with a new sock so i went ahead and threw that on there. Hopefully ill never have to pull the tank again. Ive youve ever done it you should know what im talking about. Alot of time getting it to come out, and even more trying to get everything lined up going back in. I did manage to get a video the other day. Just a quick pull, just to see the acceleration and sound of the car.



again only thing performance wise done to the car is short ram intake and exhaust.

[celica74]

Friday i got the intake manifold on. Pictures will be up later. Did notice less throttle responce after installation. Ben did make a good point that only difference would be in the top end due to "better flow". Will probly put the stock upper manifold back on. Looking at it i believe itll help mix the air and fuel. Did adjust the timing again and did see a little more pep. After driving bens 3sgte i def. Need to get this project going. I feel like i could outrun my car on foot.

[celica74]

Valves were surprisingly very very clean.




good comparison of a stock intake manifold and the one i modified. Again, probably going to install stock upper to help mix the fuel and air.

After i finished the night shade with a clear coat. Didnt wet sand, didnt see a need for it after i washed them real good. Yes i know i need to debadge her.



^ picture was taken after my dads birthday dinner. Honestly sat there starring at her for 10 minutes haha. Am i the only one?

FINALLY got my spare 7a up on a stand. Didnt get far into the tear down. Got the crank pulley, timing belt gear, water pump, power steering pump, rear main, and half the front main off. Going to get back into it tomorrow night. taking my time pulling bolts and placing them in bags with labels to make sure when everything goes back together i can just grab what i need without hesitation.

[celica74]

Alright a small update. Been busy with work and what not. Honestly hate coming home after working on cars all day long and it kinda makes me lazy enough to not work on mine. But anyways, look who i ran into the other day.

BEN! Went to his work to pick up a 12 point 10mm socket for the robs bolts.
So today i got the oil pan off

Looking at the pan and even the oil pickup its clear the person who opened it up last used way too much RTV, and oddly enough put it towards the inside lip of the pan.

Previous owner stated the head gasket went twice on him in the little time he had the car before parting it. Leaving a nice milky goo in the oil pan

I honestly think this motor wasnt cleaned when the guy before him had it, the rear main seal, pistons, oil pump and everything look new.
Got the upper oil pan(baffle) off as well, i cant understand why toyota decided to use allen bolts on this, almost rounded out 2 of them.

Good look at the crank and rod assembly, again way too much RTV. Remember too much is just as bad as too little.

Oil pump off, gasket again looking newish.


A nice view of my working conditions

And finally, this is the reason i kinda was out of the car scene for a while




Hopefully tomorrow ill get my act together and pull the crank and pistons and hopefully the robs and crank journals will be ok, seeing the RTV all up in the pump pickup. Monday is payday so i might be ordering some parts. importperformanceparts.net sells oem and hp rebuild kits. Looking at getting the oem kit and maybe .040 pistons. Does anyone know what that will do to the compression? The bore would be 82mm then. Ive tried using the online calculators and for some reason i always get a very off number.

[celica74]

This update is not good. Pulled the pistons and crank. Here are some pictures. Self explanatory.
This is cylinder number one.

This is number two.

And this my friends, is number three, the devil.

Anyone notice anything missing?





If you havent guessed yet, cylinder number three had no bearing for the rob cap. I couldnt tell you if it was even there to begin with. The cap was moving back and forth very loosely when i was loosening the bolts. Sure enough, nothing on the inside but a F***ed up crank and rod cap. Looking at all the other bearing its clear this motor starved of oil. Im pretty sure the moron who opened her up last didnt know and didnt care what they were doing. Could be why they decided to sell the car to a guy who knows nothing about cars and of course is going to buy it just because it was turboed.
Dont know how im going to resolve this issue, was hoping to get this motor in my car within the next month, not looking so good now that i have to either machine the crank or buy a new one. So if your selling a 7a crank, send me a message.

[celica74]

Took the block up to the machine shop. Itll be sitting there till i get the rods and pistons. Machinist says that the crack is usable and that the #3 journal is just bearing material melted to the crank. So i guess i wont have to buy a new one thank god. Blocks going to get the works, cleaning, boring, decking, line hone. Cranks going to get resurfaced, polished and balanced. I still need to tear down the head and take it to get deck and cleaned as well, considering a radius cut on the valves. Dont know what im going to do about beefing it up though. No aftermarket support for valves, springs or retainers. I should have a problem unless i decide to beat on it and actually make 250hp. Would like to know it could handle more though. Ive heard of guys using 4age valves, springs and retainers but no conformation on that. Might just leave it the way it is and save to turbo it into a 7agte. Only problem right now is money. Ive got enough to get the hp kit and the spool rods i want. Thatll atleast put the motor to use and go ahead and get it in the car running.

[celica74]

Hoping to get the crank to be worked on tomorrow so i can order my hp kit. Anyone ever knifeedge a crank before? Hoping i can just do it myself to save some money. Ill talk to the machinest to see how much i could do and at what point he couldnt balance it. Wanna make it as light as possible consider i cant get a 7a lightweight flywheel. Or does the 1zz or 4age or another motor with actual aftermarket support share the same bolt patter and size. Also would like to know the distance between the valve and piston at tdc. Wanna grind the cams just dont know how far i can go before it becomes an interferance motor.

[celica74]

Been hard at work. Like ive mentioned before, im dead set on an n/a build. Did alot of searching and no one that i can find has done anything to the 7a really besides turbo. Hoping this thread will encourage more members with 7a's to not just swap, or turbo, or just leave stock, but to have some fun with it, spend some money and make a screamer. My goal is to outrun a integra gsr. They weight about a hundred or so more pounds then a 6gc, and make about 180 at the crank. So if i can get anywhere from 155 and up hp at the wheels my goal should be achieved. I took the crank and main caps to the machine shop today, getting a quote on knifeedging the crank if the guy there will actually do it. Also took some measurements on the block and determined that i can not only bore .040 over. guess what. I can go more. Block will be bored out .060, leaving about .250 for the cylinder wall. Machinist said some of the honda guys run turbos on cylinder walls less then that, so this should work out quite well. Surprised the 7a have that much meat to it. So with .060 over the 7a will be a 1.95l according to other people who have board only .020 and .040 over before. Gunna order the pistons and rods and rebuild kit probly next week. Pistons specs 82.5mm with 11:1-11.5:1 comp. Alright enough with the technical drowsy eye crap. heres some pictures.

Two pics i took out in fuquay the other night with my friend whos got the only zx2 four door escort.



Didnt get any pics of his car. His escort outran two different gsr's at the strip a couple weeks ago and will be a good benchmark to shoot for.

Started porting the head today. I started on the exhaust thinking if they were off a little bit due to this being my first time porting it wouldnt matter as much as the intake. I used some sanding bits on a drimel and a drill. I also have a metal burr remover, nasty sharp sucker takes the metal away like its nothing, making the initial removal easy.
First port as using the burr remover

Allowed me to open the port right up fairly quick. After that i just used the sanding bits to get everything flowing and opened up in the tighter spots.
This is port one finished

Couple people have said that its better to leave the intake ports a little rough to help create turbulence mixing up the air and fuel, but i figured itd be better to smooth the exhaust out as much as possible to help it flow better. So i used 120 grit sanding wheels and made sure everything was nice and smooth.
Finished up two ports today, heres a look at them.

[Smaay]

good info here

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=72502&hl

[celica74]

good info here

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=72502&hl

Thanks, ive read it probly 4 times before.