USDM 96 Celica ST Engine swap to 3S-GTE Gen3 HELP, need help deciding what to do Options

[KADE]

I like everyone else on this forum love the celica and like most of you, I want more out of what the stock motor can offer (without throwing lots of cash at it)
What I have is a Cherry Red 1996 Celica Liftback 2.2L w/5-speed transmission with 220,000 miles on it, a few months ago the engine started to finally show signs that it was ready for the ol scrapyard.
Given that I have grown attached to the car and I DEFINITELY NEVER want to give it up i decided that I would like to take this opportunity to put the 3S-GTE GenIII motor into it in place of the stock engine (5S-FE i believe)
I opted for the Gen3 motor because it already comes water cooled (based on a couple months research) and comes right out of the same chasis frame as my vehicle AT200 / ST205.... (if theres a difference between the two please correct me.)
now here's where my mechanical ignorance kicks in, I'm not in anyway a mechanic nor am I experienced in that field and I'm hoping that some of you more experienced mech's can help me make the right decision(s)
I have lucked out and gotten a decent deal on a set of parts as listed

Parts I currently have

3S-GTE (complete motor, CUT wiring harness )
Front Mounted Intercooler
Engine mounts
E-153 tranny + LSD (ALready connected to the motor with Clutch, Flywheel etc...)
GT-4 Axles (I Just recently discovered do NOT mount up to the E-153 LSD transmission)
ECU

The things I don't currently have but I do intend on adding before the swap starts

Walboro 400lph fuel pump
Act 6 puck Racing/Street Clutch kit with 300 lb/ft torque sealing
3" Exhaust + Flowmaster Delta 40 mmuffler
GT Shift Cables (I read up and they are needed for this swap to work)
ST205 rear transmission mount bracket
Booste Gauge (Aftermarket)
MR-2/Camry Axle

Now heres where things get confusing for me, I'm not the one who is doing the swap but I am paying a professional mechanic to do it so I want to make sure that he has EVERYTHING needed and that there wont be any SURPRISES!!!
I have been researching a lot over the months and I know people prefer the front clip style swap but I didn't have that available especially not for the deal I got. I know a lot of people will frown upon doing things this way but I do ask for your patience and any and all HELPFUL and encouraging advice some of you who have undergone this may have.
If there are any parts needed that I did not have listed or I CAN'T remove from my stock motor please let me know.

This post has been edited by KADE: Jan 17, 2013 - 11:18 PM

[mkernz22]

For one, you need to creat hybrid axles using MR2 inners and GT4 outers.
Secondly, it's only watercooled if you use the top mount, in which case you would need the pump for it. (usually comes with a clip, not just the engine)
If you in fact have a front mount, there are some things you need to change with the wiring.
Thirdly, you need GT4 shifter cables for the E153, not GT cables. (not positive)
Fourthly, you only need a walboro 255lph fuel pump, the 400lph is overkill (unless you plan on making a lot more power).
Fifthly, you'll need st205 front, rear, and transmission mounts, not just the rear.

I think there is more to the wiring than just for the pump, but someone else will probably chime in on that.
If I made any mistakes, someone please correct me.

This post has been edited by mkernz22: Jan 17, 2013 - 11:40 PM

[KADE]

For one, you need to creat hybrid axles using MR2 inners and GT4 outers.
Secondly, it's only watercooled if you use the top mount, in which case you would need the pump for it. (usually comes with a clip, not just the engine)
If you in fact have a front mount, there are some things you need to change with the wiring.
Thirdly, you need GT4 shifter cables for the E153, not GT cables. (not positive)
Fourthly, you only need a walboro 255lph fuel pump, the 400lph is overkill (unless you plan on making a lot more power).
Fifthly, you'll need st205 front, rear, and transmission mounts, not just the rear.

I think there is more to the wiring than just for the pump, but someone else will probably chime in on that.
If I made any mistakes, someone please correct me.

Good to know!!
for the front mounted intercooler, what extra things do i have to run to make it adapt to my set up and also im not sure if you might know the answer to this but can my stock Radiator still be used with the motor inside? (will it fit)

[Smaay]

if you have a GT with a 2.2 5S-FE then you do not have an AT200, you have an ST204. your title says you have an ST which is an ST200 but it comes with a 1.8L 7A-FE. what does the number on your firewall say or post a pic of your engine

yes the stock radiator will work on your 3S swap.

all your questions have been answered several times in the stickys. read them again and again.

This post has been edited by Smaay: Jan 18, 2013 - 12:47 PM

[KADE]

if you have a GT with a 2.2 5S-FE then you do not have an AT200, you have an ST204. your title says you have an ST which is an ST200 but it comes with a 1.8L 7A-FE. what does the number on your firewall say or post a pic of your engine

yes the stock radiator will work on your 3S swap.

all your questions have been answered several times in the stickys. read them again and again.

For the longest time I've been told that my car was an ST liftback because no where on the chasis does it show the GT emblem and even after running around online looking into things I didn't think otherwise. I've even compared my vehicle to other celica owners that I know and even they were convinced my car was the ST liftback. After reading what you put I started to second guess myself that much more and I decided to take on your advice and I looked on my insurance information....*drum roll*.... turns out that the VIN# chasis reads out that its a 7A-FE motor inside even though it IS %100 2.2L and my insurance papers qualifies it as a "Celica GT Liftback" so I'm going out on a limb and I'm going to guess that means my car IS a GT after all
Live & Learn, thanks again guys, keep the good advice coming I can use all the help I can get.

This post has been edited by KADE: Jan 18, 2013 - 2:09 PM

[richee3]

Other ways to tell that it's a GT is if it has the 5 spoke alloys and the exhaust is another visual cue- ST stock exhaust is tiny. The fact that you have a GT will save a lot of headaches for a 3S swap.

[BonzaiCelica]

its an at200 chassis

[KADE]

I took a look at the stock spokes and it is a 5-Bolt pattern as richee mentioned. the exhaust on the other hand is kind of hard to go by only because what you might call "tiny" may in fact seem normal to some so I'm not %100 sure how to cue that visual test. If it helps at all the car's natural color is a "Rusty" red
I got my mechanic to take a look on the firewall for me and the Chassis code is AT200 on the firewall!! Very confusing though because it has the following

GT like features:
2.2L Engine
5-Bolt wheel pattern
Power Windows, Doors, Mirrors
Rear windshield wiper
and boasts the 25th Anniversary emblem above the rear view mirror
insurance info lists it as "1996 Toyota Celica GT Liftback"

ST Like features
AT200 Chassis code
VIN# indicates it SHOULD be a 7A-FE motor inside
No GT emblem
Drum brakes on the rear (unconfirmed)

I'm not sure what to make of it but at least now I know it is the AT200 Chassis

This post has been edited by KADE: Jan 18, 2013 - 3:31 PM

[njccmd2002]

the 25th anniversary package may give it some GT features, but the chassis at200 is not a st204...., so ST... sorry..

[KADE]

That's alright, nothing to be sorry about I'm not going to love the car less because of it
now I know I have my work cut out for me, so that means I will have to get the GT/GT-4 shift cables amongst a few other things listed above

[Smaay]

actually you dont. the ST cables are slightly longer than the GT, so if you get an E153 trans then you will be just fine. now that we know you have an ST you do have some options.

have you already got the 3S-GTE? is your heart set on a 3S? what is your budget? there is another engine option that will be just as easy to install and half the cost of a 3S.

[mkernz22]

If you get us some pictures of the car we can definitely tell you what it is!

[KADE]

I'll get some pics for you guys as soon as I can
I did pick up the 3S engine already but it isnt a death sentence by any means so if you do have a suggestion for something that could work out better in my favor I'm all ears, after all I'm here to learn.

[blackliftback]

Sounds like you have an st but insurance is cheating ur money lol

[KADE]

Sounds like you have an st but insurance is cheating ur money lol

lol some how that really doesn't surprise me, I'm still trying to figure out all the parts I need to make the 3S work in my ST

[richee3]

Give this thread a good read.

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=28825

[KADE]

I managed to get the pictures for you guys, so the name of the game is "Name that Engine"... You don't win a prize though

Don't mind the rust... It shows character

This is what made me suspicious...



back shots...relax, she's taken



This post has been edited by KADE: Jan 24, 2013 - 10:15 AM

[rave2n]

7AFE

ST model.

[CrossCudi]

7AFE

ST model.

uh oh,.. i have 7afe but it doesnt look anything like this,...? hmmmm i will post pics shortly..

[CrossCudi]

7AFE

ST model.

uh oh,.. i have 7afe but it doesnt look anything like this,...? hmmmm i will post pics shortly..

sorry rave2n its the exact one,.. 7afe it is..