gen3 3sgte iacv problem Options

[match220]

So I've narrowed down my previous post "gen III 3sgte runs for 5 seconds and shuts off" to the problem. The iacv isn't fully engaging and I can hear the solenoid clicking about 10 times a second because it can't turn the valve. I took the solenoid part off (held by two screws) and tried to manually turn the metal stub in the TB...it turns but it is hard to turn and there was a little rust build up. I'm not sure if the solenoid is old and worn and can't turn the valve, or if the valve is stuck because it's old and it can't be turned by the solenoid. Either way, it's not moving. I tried spraying some lubricant and it didn't seem to help. Is there a replacement part that I can use instead of the gen3 3sgte one? Or do I have to try to find a gen3 iacv? I didn't see the IACV in the gen3 parts list, but I thought I would ask anyway. Part number on the white solenoid part is 22270-74230. I have a 22270-74290 off of a 5sfe (either 98 camry or 95 celica) that I can play around with and I should have another one off of another 5sfe (either 98 camry or 95 celica). I read in another post that there is a 22270-74210 that will fit too. Have you guys tried swapping these out? Do they function the same even though the part numbers are different? And is only the solenoid swappable or is the valve part swappable too?

[delusionz]

take the IACV apart and clean it with carby cleaner, let it soak, that door will free up, i thought i posted a thread with pictures, i had this too

[match220]

take the IACV apart and clean it with carby cleaner, let it soak, that door will free up, i thought i posted a thread with pictures, i had this too

ugh, I was thinking I would have to do that. I don't want to pull my TB off again..lol. Spray carb cleaner or the 1 gallon soak bucket one?

[delusionz]

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...439&hl=iscv

its idle speed not idle air, thats why i couldn't find it before

[match220]

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showto...439&hl=iscv

its idle speed not idle air, thats why i couldn't find it before

ok, thanks! I should correct your post though just in case someone is looking to it for information on setting up an aftermarket computer to run the car. The middle pin is positive from a switched ignition source, but pin 1 is positive and pin 3 is negative, or vice versa, it should work either way but both are from the ecu. I was told by many tuners to configure it that way. I'll take it apart today and clean it though.

This post has been edited by match220: Mar 2, 2013 - 4:11 PM

[delusionz]

i'd tested the signals coming from the stock gt4 ecu and it was definitely the middle pin carrying a +12v signal

the toyota/denso iscv for engines like ours (3s,4a,jz,etc) is one of a kind, others dont work like ours.

its called a 2 pole or 2 coil or something for our 3 wire iscv,

others use either 2 or 4 wires and have a single coil, its usually works very simply like a simple solenoid valve,

i hear people run into problems with older ecus that dont have an option to select what type of iscv is used, so they tend to customise their entire intake manifold, throttle body, and bypass ports and use a GM idle solenoid valve or similar. however i assume your autronic ecu is advanced enough to be able to program it to operate the way toyota originally operated the iscv...





YO after you got it freed up with carb cleaner, spray it down with wd40 as its all metal in there. the clearance isnt at all tight but still. i think thats the reason why it gets blocked too, is because the clearance is big enuff to let through dirt and oil

This post has been edited by delusionz: Mar 2, 2013 - 5:21 PM

[delusionz]

the way it works is brilliant, the way it controls idle is designed to be smooth and less vibration because its never actually closed, it suspends half way between open and closed.

whereas a normal solenoid is half open, half closed. so when it closes, see what happens if you block the air supply while the motor is running, the engine stumbles and shakes as its forced to a sudden stall. see the way our iscv works, its never stall-revive-stall-revive-stall-revive its just always correct amount of air.

[delusionz]

at first i didnt like it, so i put a large 1 way checkvalve on my idle breather line to see how that would run,

i didn't gain any power so obviously the minor air leak isn't enough to notice, but the idle became a little rough due to the on/off operation so thats when i concluded toyota knew what they were doing when they designed it the way that they did, so now i believe, if you can make it work like toyota made it work, do it, when it comes to these things theres not much that you can improve on

[match220]

i'd tested the signals coming from the stock gt4 ecu and it was definitely the middle pin carrying a +12v signal

the toyota/denso iscv for engines like ours (3s,4a,jz,etc) is one of a kind, others dont work like ours.

its called a 2 pole or 2 coil or something for our 3 wire iscv,

others use either 2 or 4 wires and have a single coil, its usually works very simply like a simple solenoid valve,

i hear people run into problems with older ecus that dont have an option to select what type of iscv is used, so they tend to customise their entire intake manifold, throttle body, and bypass ports and use a GM idle solenoid valve or similar. however i assume your autronic ecu is advanced enough to be able to program it to operate the way toyota originally operated the iscv...

That's pretty cool actually, I've always loved how toyota's IACV/ISCV was so small and out of the way. It seems they only freeze up when they sit for a while. I don't think I've ever changed one out on a car that has been running.

this is all the info that I have on this ISCV/IACV. Middle pin 12v ignition switched, other two pins wired to the ecu with one inverted (grounded through ecu). Pulls less than 2.5 amps from ecu. And configured at 330hz. (I've been thinking about starting a thread on all of the sensors on the 3sgte engine and having it pinned for people who want to do aftermarket ecus). Looking at the similarities between the 5s and 3s IACV/ISCV it looks like they can be configured either way in the Autronic regardless of the engine, as long as it has that style IACV/ISCV.

And yes, Autronic is pretty advanced (even the 5 year old model that I have) to be configured to run the IACV/ISCV. The thing I like most about it is the injector selection table. There is a ridiculous number of injectors listed to choose from, stock and aftermarket. So the autronic can mimic the factory ecu precisely and you won't burn out an injector. When new injectors come out Autronic will get them and study them so the Autronic ecus will perform perfectly with them.

[match220]

hmm...5s iscv/iacv has copper contacts(where it grounds to the manifold), or some kind of copper alloy and the Gen3 3s has iron that has begun rusting. My old 5s TB that doesn't work had screws that were rusted in place that stripped and rounded out easily trying to take them out. The ISCV/IACV contacts on the 3rd gen I had to scrape clean for a good connection, even though it had dielectric paste on it to prevent rust it still had rusted a little. 5s ISCV/IACV is clearly better (22270-74290) vs the gen3 3s ISCV/IACV which has rusted contacts when the rest of it is in great shape (22270-74230).

This post has been edited by match220: Mar 2, 2013 - 5:37 PM

[delusionz]

Ahh your injector table huh, All I have on my power FC is a XY axis graph of Injector Lag Vs Voltage and a Injector % starting at 100.0. When I upgrade my injectors to say 800 i need to figure out what the lag times will be and how much % to reduce my total fuel by, luckily though power fc has been widely used in Japan for decades, the information is all out there, just gotta find it

What I love about the power fc is that even though its really basic in options, the way it was programmed internally, it means when my engine runs and when my car drives, it has the soul of a Japanese tuner

This post has been edited by delusionz: Mar 2, 2013 - 6:09 PM

[match220]

Ahh your injector table huh, All I have on my power FC is a XY axis graph of Injector Lag Vs Voltage and a Injector % starting at 100.0. When I upgrade my injectors to say 800 i need to figure out what the lag times will be and how much % to reduce my total fuel by, luckily though power fc has been widely used in Japan for decades, the information is all out there, just gotta find it

What I love about the power fc is that even though its really basic in options, the way it was programmed internally, it means when my engine runs and when my car drives, it has the soul of a Japanese tuner

I figured ecus without an injector table would have something like that. The only xy table I have for the injectors is the amount of fuel. x is rpm, y is load %, but I can change load % to TPS and a few other options if I want, then adjust injector duration that way. Then there is a fuel multiplier that you do a calculation based on the engine size to get the value to plug in. So the injectors are more easy to map to the engine. Then basically every option you can imagine for pickup, hall-effect..reluctor..0 missing teeth to 7 missing teeth, and a ton of preset gear sizes. I just found out yesterday that guys with my engine drop in s2000 denso c.o.p.s...if my 00 jetta 1.8t c.o.p.s ever burn out I'll probably switch to the denso s2000 coils, if they are shorter. My 1.8t coils stick out about an inch above the valve cover, two inches if you measure to the top of the coil. haha..the soul of a Japanese tuner. I do hear a lot about the PowerFC on here, seems a lot of guys use it.

This post has been edited by match220: Mar 2, 2013 - 6:43 PM

[match220]

I've just cleaned the IACV/ISCV, and it still clicks on and off about 10 times a second. What are the settings for it in your power fc? I've tried reversing the polarity of the wires coming from the ecu to it, so I switched the + and - and left the main 12v wire the same. Still clicks like crazy. The other part number from the 5s iacv/iasv works but the holes are slightly farther apart, just enough so it doesn't screw in, the spring is weaker on the inside of the valve body too. But when I set it in place the solenoid rattles just like the 3s one. And the opening flaps like it is supposed to, it just does it extremely fast.

[frotou]

Hi there ,

I see you post on the autronic forum . First you have to know that idle valve control is not mandatory and may not be full compatible with the sm4 .

Disconnect your iacv and try to get 3-4 % opening on your throttle body . (adjustable bolt or cable adjustment ?)

With this permanent opening you should be able to get your engine run with proper fuel and timming .

Do you have sync error ?

I have oversize throttle body with little opening (which is my 0% on autronic tb setting) and with the idle timming table on the autronic my 1.8L engine idle very well.

You should try permanent opening and idle timming table .

Claude

[match220]

Hi there ,

I see you post on the autronic forum . First you have to know that idle valve control is not mandatory and may not be full compatible with the sm4 .

Disconnect your iacv and try to get 3-4 % opening on your throttle body . (adjustable bolt or cable adjustment ?)

With this permanent opening you should be able to get your engine run with proper fuel and timming .

Do you have sync error ?

I have oversize throttle body with little opening (which is my 0% on autronic tb setting) and with the idle timming table on the autronic my 1.8L engine idle very well.

You should try permanent opening and idle timming table .

Claude

Thanks, I played around with the car more and got it running today. But it idles dangerously high now (4k rpm), so I don't let it run for long. The IACV should be able to function on the SM4, I've been told how to configure them on toyotas, but it still isn't working properly. Tomorrow I'll unplug it and see how it will perform. When I was rebuilding it I noticed it was partially open when off, so it will be a boost leak when disconnected. I might have to plug the hose.

[delusionz]

still haven't figured it out?

i have no options for it because my ecu is designed to plug in and use factory sensors, its all internal on my ecu idle and coldstart