Why are some cars four-lug and some five-lug? Options

[Coomer]

Why are some cars four-lug, while others are five-lug? To me, it seems like a lot of nicer cars have five-lug.

For example, the third gen. Integras are all 4-lug, except the Type R which is 5-lug.

The fourth gen. Celica GT and ST in the US are 4-lug, but the nicer GT-S and even nicer All-Trac are 5-lug.

The fifth gen. Celica ST is 4-lug, while the nicer other models are all 5-lug.

So why do manufacturers decide to make some cars 4-lug and others 5-lug? It seems to me like 5-lug maybe adds a bit more weight, but is marginally safer because it's one more lugnut for protection in case others fail. It also seems slightly more expensive to make a 5-lug setup because of more materials. But I dunno...anyone have any good explanation for this?

[Hanyo]

the more lugs you have the sercure you can attach the rim to the car.

If you notice also the cheaper cars have lugs closer together, while the more expencive cars have them more far apart.

Lets look at the lug pattern of a beamer in comparison to the dodge neon.

[biglipzit]

The manufacturers do this for power considerations. The type R integra is a more powerful vehicle built for racing and a 5 bolt wheel would deliver that extra power to the ground alot safer than a 4 lug. In a race the last thing you want is breaking the bolts so the extra bolt is added for extra strength to deal with the power delivery situation and environment the vehicle was built for. That is why faster better versions of certain cars have 5 bolts instead of 4 bolts in the economy versions. Some companies like toyota use the same chassis on certain vehicles as on others and you would find that some economy cars come 5 bolt because it is too much trouble to deal with changing the hubs when they were already mass produced as 5 bolt. The weight difference is negligable in lug and bolt situations.

[Akimbo]

Aren't most Honda's 4?

[mr_dude]

Plus the big factor - weight. I have a feeling we'll be seeing a lot more in the years to come. I'm actually surprised the GT4 isn't 6.

I wonder how much money one less lug saves.

[Kwanza26]

It's because of parts sharing... IMO Toyot couldn't even decide what engine to put into the 4th gen Celica ST/GT when they first came out. The GT/ST are essentially the same car minus some options. The GTS, different car. Being (almost) top of the line for the time, they wanted to put the best stuff on it. What better incentives than to throw down alltrac brakes all the way around? As for the 5th gens... the 4 lug ST was only till 91 or 92 I think. All of the later models were 5 lug. Again, part sharing. They probably had a lot of the old 4th gen 4 lug hubs/spindles left over and wanted to clear them out.

As for Honda, the ITR uses different brakes for the fronts, so the rears are done to match. That would be my best guess. Stock power is also a good reason...

[Kwanza26]

Plus the big factor - weight.  I have a feeling we'll be seeing a lot more in the years to come.  I'm actually surprised the GT4 isn't 6.

I wonder how much money one less lug saves.
[right][snapback]230126[/snapback][/right]

1 lug probably saves $$$$$... really... ;]

Actually, although weight is a logical reason, isn't the main one. The ITR is the lightest of all of that gen's Integras. As for the GT4, it doesn't really need 6 lugs. Even toyota's pickups still run 5.

[mr_dude]

The ITR is the lightest of all of that gen's Integras.

Right right, F = MV and the R will have lots of V.

As for the GT4, it doesn't really need 6 lugs. Even toyota's pickups still run 5.

Yeah but watching rallies makes me wonder how the lugs survive that kind of abuse.

[97sccelica]

Plus the big factor - weight.  I have a feeling we'll be seeing a lot more in the years to come.  I'm actually surprised the GT4 isn't 6.

I wonder how much money one less lug saves.
[right][snapback]230126[/snapback][/right]

1 lug probably saves $$$$$... really... ;]

Actually, although weight is a logical reason, isn't the main one. The ITR is the lightest of all of that gen's Integras. As for the GT4, it doesn't really need 6 lugs. Even toyota's pickups still run 5.
[right][snapback]230133[/snapback][/right]

thats exactly what i was going to say. it probably saved toyota a lot of money during production

[neoklis]

All of you have a point.

but why JDM preludes are 4-lug but european spec ones are 5 lug then?

[mr_dude]

And by F = MV I meant P = MV... oy.

Walked by about 30 trucks today, about half Tacomas and Tundras, half F-150s. Only one Tacoma had 5ers. Most had six. But most F-150s had five lugs.
Yay American engineering.

Four lug preludes? Weak. I had respect for that car.

[Digndoug]

even thow its covered simple rules. Wieght- power- amount of stress=design. most american or better cars have t, because there heavier and have more power.

[turboinduction]

And by F = MV I meant P = MV... oy.

Walked by about 30 trucks today, about half Tacomas and Tundras, half F-150s.  Only one Tacoma had 5ers.  Most had six.  But most F-150s had five lugs.
Yay American engineering.

Four lug preludes?  Weak.  I had respect for that car.
[right][snapback]230317[/snapback][/right]

I believe its a 4x4 or 4x2 thing. Because the X-Runner is a 5-bolt pattern.

Also, 4's are abundant on even cars that are nice. Can anyone say 4x114.3 on the Nissan 240SX. AHHH.

-Ti

[mr_dude]

I don't know about you's, but I'm getting the 7-lug upgrade! Any less than that and my wheels could roll right off.

[turboinduction]

I don't know about you's, but I'm getting the 7-lug upgrade!  Any less than that and my wheels could roll right off.
[right][snapback]230348[/snapback][/right]

Sweet, i'm calln' DUB to make my custom rims right now

-Ti

[Andason]

Why are some cars four-lug, while others are five-lug? To me, it seems like a lot of nicer cars have five-lug.

For example, the third gen. Integras are all 4-lug, except the Type R which is 5-lug.

The fourth gen. Celica GT and ST in the US are 4-lug, but the nicer GT-S and even nicer All-Trac are 5-lug.

The fifth gen. Celica ST is 4-lug, while the nicer other models are all 5-lug.

So why do manufacturers decide to make some cars 4-lug and others 5-lug? It seems to me like 5-lug maybe adds a bit more weight, but is marginally safer because it's one more lugnut for protection in case others fail. It also seems slightly more expensive to make a 5-lug setup because of more materials. But I dunno...anyone have any good explanation for this?
[right][snapback]230097[/snapback][/right]

fifth gen ST is 5 lug. i owned one so i know for fact. i had 2000+ GTS rims on there...

[Kwanza26]

Why are some cars four-lug, while others are five-lug? To me, it seems like a lot of nicer cars have five-lug.

For example, the third gen. Integras are all 4-lug, except the Type R which is 5-lug.

The fourth gen. Celica GT and ST in the US are 4-lug, but the nicer GT-S and even nicer All-Trac are 5-lug.

The fifth gen. Celica ST is 4-lug, while the nicer other models are all 5-lug.

So why do manufacturers decide to make some cars 4-lug and others 5-lug? It seems to me like 5-lug maybe adds a bit more weight, but is marginally safer because it's one more lugnut for protection in case others fail. It also seems slightly more expensive to make a 5-lug setup because of more materials. But I dunno...anyone have any good explanation for this?
[right][snapback]230097[/snapback][/right]

fifth gen ST is 5 lug. i owned one so i know for fact. i had 2000+ GTS rims on there...
[right][snapback]230511[/snapback][/right]

You must have just skipped right over my post to get straight to coomer huh?

[Andason]

mine was a 92

[Clipsetuner]

4-5lug has always been strange. like on full size trucks, typicaly 1/4 tons have 5 lug, 1/2 tons have 6 lugs, 3/4 and 1ton that 8 lugs, then typicaly beyond that you get into strange 10-18 lug patterns.

My buddys has a Datsun 521 and its got a smaller sized 6 lug and almost no one makes rims that will even come close to fitting it.

DTE

[Chrobis]

Also, 4's are abundant on even cars that are nice. Can anyone say 4x114.3 on the Nissan 240SX. AHHH.

-Ti

The only 240's that had a 4 lug pattern were the lesser models, and only s13's... The s13 SE had 5 lugs, and all s14 and s15's are 5 lug.

This post has been edited by Chrobis: Jan 7, 2005 - 12:06 AM