Newbie confused???? 5sfte, Numbers and how everthing relates! Options

[urbandork]

Ok im slowly doing a 5sfte. However when it comes to the fuel delivery system i get conused.

Things that im confused about
FMU's
Boost Contorller
Boost timing managment.
225 lph pump
330cc injectors

Ok how do they all relate and work together? What would happen with out them? which ones can i do with out asap and which ones can i put on later?

So far Im confused on the whole fmu thing. What are the ratio numbers representing and how does this relate to me? i suspect they are fuel compression numbers or something? How does it change the fuel flow?? if it even does that? How does a 2 bar map sensor get into this equation.

Boost contorller? what does it do i assume it has something with controlling boost but how and in what way? Fuel ??? Does it jsut mess around with the a/f mixture isnt this what a fmu does? Is it the same as an FMU? im so lost?

Whats all this talk about how much load is on the injectors and the % numbers? what r these number?

BTM retards boost right? can i jsut redo the timing myself? Or does it only retard it when there is boost? Can i run 8 psi with out retarding my timming?

225 lph pump. This just pumps more fuel into the chamber right?

330cc injectors. These allow for more fuel to be sparyed into the chambers right?

I have searched both this forum and google and i seem only to get more confused. I dont like putting something in my car i dont understand or explain how it works. Thus y im asking and want to understand how these things work.

Thanks a million in advanced cus omg im so confused.

This post has been edited by urbandork: Mar 11, 2005 - 10:34 PM

[lagos]

http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=5574

[urbandork]

yes i read all of that but it dosent explain everthing such as how a FMU actually works. Im also still lost on the fuel delivery system and what i need and why. Also what kind of management i need so i dont double up on stuff. Do i need a fuel regulator and or btm if i have a whole engine managment system to contorl all of that?

[Hanyo]

its gets quite confusing

Think of it this way... the fuel pump has no way of choosing how much fuel it puts out, it just keep pumping away. So you need a fuel pressure regulator. What the fuel pressure regulator does is, it returns fuel back to the fuel tank after it reaches a certian psi, therefore controlling the fuel pressure.. The fuel ratio is, how much fuel the regulator keeps and how much it lets by and back into the fuel tank.

boost timing management... this unit retards the timing with a turn of a nob. This is help full for people who have obd II ecu's. You can retard your timing manually by turning the distributor. You MUST retard timing for a boosted motor.

[urbandork]

How do i know how much to regulate the fuel by? is this where and a/f gauge comes in. If so whats the ideal a/f mixture and is this number depended on how much boost ur runnign. Ill be running around 8 to 9 psi.

If it does have something to do with the a/f mixture i take it this is where the boost contorler comes it which can monitor the a/f and change it.

N e way i take it it would not be safe to run a 225lph fuel pump and larger injectors on a 5sfTe with out a feul presure regulator? right? Can i run the larger injectors (330cc) with the stock fuel pump and not worry about running lean IF im running 8 to 10 psi?

Humm retard timming by turning the distrbutor. I thought that i could but by how much. Is this also dependent on how much boost, Yes right?. (which i have to do n e way right 10 instead of 8?).

Thanks you guys for all ur help

This post has been edited by urbandork: Mar 12, 2005 - 1:19 PM

[Hanyo]

you need to get an fuel regulator according to what size injector you are using.. The boost controller does what is says. it controls the boost, and nothing more. It prevents the boost pressure from going above the desinated amount.

The a/f gauges are junk, most of the time they are not very accurate. You need to tune the a/f curve according to your set up with a air/fuel mixture controller, like a stand alone ecu, emanagement, or apexi..

Retarding the timing manually is not very accurate. The more you retard timing the safer you run with a less chances of detenation, which also means the less power you make. The less you retard timing, the more power you will make, but the high chance of your motor blowing up. So you have to fine tune it accourding to boost and the fuel you are using. (Race fuel 87 89 91?)

Think of it this way, You are watering a garden with a garden house. The fuel pump is like the water pressure from the house. The fuel regulator is like the valvue you turn to turn on the water, you can adjust this accordingly. The injectors is like the nozzle you squeeze to acontrol where the water goes again. This nozzle can range from a fire truck nozzle, or a normal garden house. And you are like the stock ecu. You can adjust how much water ( fuel) to put out, But if there isnt enough water pressure or the injectors cant spray enough, that is when it gets dangerious the plants die ( your motor runes lean). Now think about differnt combinations. put a fire truck hose nossle on the garden hose. No matter how big you open the nozzle, the water coming out is not good enough to spray the plants... Very rough ideology...

hope that clears it up abit. Now i'm waiting for a flaming for hacking up this stuff. I probably said something wrong also.. go ahead flame!!!

[erics1one]

just think about it this way...

get a Boost Rising Fuel Pressure Regulator
Supra Walbro 255lph Fuel Pump
Appropriate injectors (many kinds)
a Air/Fuel Ratio Computer

install the WHOLE 5sfTe kit. Get it Dyno tuned.

If you get all the appropriate parts, and have it dyno tuned, you should be good.

[urbandork]

cool thanks guys. All have been very helpful. I shall now be a bit more confident in my project as it goes on through time.

[presure2]

sorry i was away all weekend pretty much..the guys pretty much have it covered, ill add my 2 cents, too..lol

ok, a FMU is used to raise your fuel pressure according to boost. the ratio #'s work like this. for instance say you have a 12:1 fmu. what that means is that for every 1 pound of boost, it will raise your fuel pressure 12lbs. so say you start with a base fuel pressure of 42lbs. and your running 10lbs of boost. the FMU unit would raise your fuel pressure by 120lbs. that would give you a total fuel pressure of 162. (just so you know, you dont ever wanna have that high a fuel pressure, thats just an example)
with the combo of the larger injectors and BTM and SAFC or whatever to control fuel, you dont need the FMU. IMO the FMU is somthing that i would use if i was doing it old school and just adding a injector in the intake path.
a boost controler is exactly what it says, it controls boost. you use the boostcontroler to control the amount of boost you want to run.
the BTM(boost timing management) unit is a product thats made by MSD. its made to retard your timing a set about for every pound of boost.
when you introduce a turbo onto the 5sfe, you have a few inherit problems that you have to overcome.
you need to add more fuel to compensate for the extra air your forcing in to the motor, so the first thought is to pop in bigger injectors, BUT when you put in the bigger injectors, you need t have a way to take out some of that extra fuel you dont need when your not boosting, and to add more in the places you need it.
thats where units like the SAFC come in. what that does is intercepts the map sensor signal going into the ECU and "tricks" the ecu into thinking there is less or more air coming into the engine than there actually is, so the ECU adjusts the amount of fuel acordingly. now, when the ecu does this, it controls the timing at the same time, advancing and retarding the timing according to how much fuel&air are going into the engine.
as your RPM's increase, the ECU natrally adds timing, and when you add boost to the mix, you get closer and closer to detonation. that is bad. lol thats where the BTM comes in, you use that to take out some timing to help keep u in that "safe "range.
the fuel pump is just that it pumps fuel from your tank to the fuel rail. the bigger pump pumps more fuel. simple. and no its NOT safe to run without it.
the injectors, theyre 315's NOT 330's are to add more fuel like i said to compensate for the extra air your cramming into the engine with the turbo.
all the above things work together...you really need to use them in unison, as a big "combo" so to speak...if you have AIM hit me up, man, we can chat about it.

This post has been edited by presure2: Mar 13, 2005 - 12:48 PM