When does a T3/T4 60 trim work?, is it normal that it is at 4K revs? Options

[Conwa]

I recently installed a T3/T4 60 trim turbo on my 7afe, but is it normal that it start boosting at 4K revs?
I have a B16 manifold and a 2,5 inch downpipe.
It spools up @ about 3,5K but kicks in at 4K and stops at 6200 when it hits the rev limiter (of course)
Its running @ 0.45 Bar (7psi ?)

[playr158]

4k is probably correct

you are using a turbo that is TOO BIG for your motor though

a T3s60 or SMALL T3/T4 and when i say small i mean like 47trim would have been more than sufficient...you just merely are using the wrong turbo

This post has been edited by playr158: Apr 23, 2007 - 1:09 PM

[angrymike]

thats about right. that turbo will support 450whp. there is going to be a little lag.

that shouldn't be too big for your engine.

[bccentaur3]

Playr's right the super 60 is the ideal turbo for your size motor. I say buy another turbo if you have the money, if not enjoy the lag.

[trd94]

i was told that it is not lag, but foreplay for the motor ..... just jk. that does sound about right for spool time .

[angrymike]

super 60 will puke on the top end if your running anything above 10psi.

good spool, so its fun to drive.

[x_itchy_b_x]

i was told that it is not lag, but foreplay for the motor ..... just jk. that does sound about right for spool time .

i agree with that motion.

[playr158]

super 60 will puke on the top end if your running anything above 10psi.

good spool, so its fun to drive.

i highly doubt it would really....a lot of VW 1.8Ts use them and very successfully at that...
a 7afte isn't going to out flow the T3s60......plain and simple the T3/T4 in my research of the turbos for the 7afe are just too big...not to mention real world results....you want to get full boost by 3,000-3,200 any later and your really just moving out of the power band of the motor.
like i said a SMALL SMALL t3/t4 would work much better 40/47 trim a 60 trim t3/t4 is TOO LARGE, period.
we were using a t3/t4 50 trim on an EVO making 400+ whp getting full boost @ 4k-4,500rpm...

[trd94]

super 60 will puke on the top end if your running anything above 10psi.

good spool, so its fun to drive.

i will agree to this , my super 60 did not have much up top when i was trying to run 12-14psi , but it was very fun to take off and drive , felt very stock like it was just ment to be there. now i run a bigger t3/t4 a 57 trim my full boost is at 4800-5000rpm and i have pushed out 17-20 psi the motor seems to hang in there but i dont trust the rods or pistons to handle that all the time . i run 12-14 every day for about 5 months now and i dont mind the (foreplay) lag it just gives the other person a chance

[angrymike]

super 60 will puke on the top end if your running anything above 10psi.

good spool, so its fun to drive.

i highly doubt it would really....a lot of VW 1.8Ts use them and very successfully at that...
a 7afte isn't going to out flow the T3s60......plain and simple the T3/T4 in my research of the turbos for the 7afe are just too big...not to mention real world results....you want to get full boost by 3,000-3,200 any later and your really just moving out of the power band of the motor.
like i said a SMALL SMALL t3/t4 would work much better 40/47 trim a 60 trim t3/t4 is TOO LARGE, period.
we were using a t3/t4 50 trim on an EVO making 400+ whp getting full boost @ 4k-4,500rpm...

vw 1.8ts don't make good power numbers without a bunch of help. not a good example for this senario.

does your research include real world experience? i've been in a number of cars with 1.8L~2.0L engines that die on top with super 60's. most people that buy super 60's change them out 6 months later for a t3/t4 or larger.

if you want full boost by 3000 rpm, you have never driven anything with over 200whp to the front wheels. my old daily driver didn't reach full boost until 5k. it was great, i was able to keep traction and actually race from off the line. i was making 340whp on a 1.9L with a t3/t67.

your are right about a smaller t3/t4 working better, however the 60 trim will work fine as well. it is not too large. at the 6500 rpm a 1.8L will be in the highest efficency range, which is why it feels good up top.

you don't typically want to size a turbo that at the end of the run you are in the 60% efficency range, which is where you would be with a super 60.

t3/t4 flow numbers:

50 trim = 48 lbs/min
57 trim = 50 lbs/min
60 trim = 52 lbs/min

the difference in spool between a 50 trim and 60 trim is about 500 rpm. its has a worse compressor map then a 50 trim which makes it perform a little worse at lower rpms.

not trying to be a dick. i delt with the "super 60 problem" for about 4 years now with all the saturn guys. people that usually buy them are very disipointed when they push more then 10psi.

This post has been edited by angrymike: Apr 25, 2007 - 8:12 PM

[dans_st]

not to try and steal the thread, but I am going to be runnig a ceramic moated GT32 in a 60A/R @ around 12-14PSI, and possibly a 35-shot of spray, do you think that this is also a proper sized turbo?

I was told that the GT series would spool around 500rpm sooner than the T3/T4 style and get me more output, is this true?

I was told here before that this turbo was pretty much useless on my car but I am fine with a 4K spool up, and going by the calculations in the book I though tit should have been fine.

[playr158]

I guess for me personally i prefer full boost by 3k -3,5k on a celica considering they are geared more for the bottom 1/2 of the RPM range and the head design doesn't support higher RPM. I'm not a huge fan of lag (i was the driver of a 400whp evo T3/t4 50 trim full 21psi @ 4,500rpm and it would smack u in the seat HARD) though off the line using the clutch i could achieve boost faster it still isn't great..
but then again i come from VW with full 18psi @ 3k you wana complain about top end haha i get near 8psi worth of boost drop @ redline cause the damn thing is soo small. But hey if 4k works for you rock on!

[lagos]

I guess for me personally i prefer full boost by 3k -3,5k on a celica considering they are geared more for the bottom 1/2 of the RPM range and the head design doesn't support higher RPM. I'm not a huge fan of lag (i was the driver of a 400whp evo T3/t4 50 trim full 21psi @ 4,500rpm and it would smack u in the seat HARD) though off the line using the clutch i could achieve boost faster it still isn't great..
but then again i come from VW with full 18psi @ 3k you wana complain about top end haha i get near 8psi worth of boost drop @ redline cause the damn thing is soo small. But hey if 4k works for you rock on!

but dan, how can you say you prefer boost at ___RPM on a celica, when youve never owned a turbo celica? im not trying to be rude, but its one thing to go for a joy ride in a turbo celica or 400hp evo, and its totally a different thing to own one day in and day out.

here is the way i see it . a larger turbo that spools late will probably be a benefit at the track with a fwd car. it should help get the car off the line with less wheel spin.

on the other hand, a faster spooling turbo will have its benefits on the street. great throttle response and less need for downshifting on the highway will be a benefit. but getting off the line will be a lot harder since the turbo will break the tires loose much sooner in the rpm range.

[playr158]

I guess for me personally i prefer full boost by 3k -3,5k on a celica considering they are geared more for the bottom 1/2 of the RPM range and the head design doesn't support higher RPM. I'm not a huge fan of lag (i was the driver of a 400whp evo T3/t4 50 trim full 21psi @ 4,500rpm and it would smack u in the seat HARD) though off the line using the clutch i could achieve boost faster it still isn't great..
but then again i come from VW with full 18psi @ 3k you wana complain about top end haha i get near 8psi worth of boost drop @ redline cause the damn thing is soo small. But hey if 4k works for you rock on!

but dan, how can you say you prefer boost at ___RPM on a celica, when youve never owned a turbo celica? im not trying to be rude, but its one thing to go for a joy ride in a turbo celica or 400hp evo, and its totally a different thing to own one day in and day out.

here is the way i see it . a larger turbo that spools late will probably be a benefit at the track with a fwd car. it should help get the car off the line with less wheel spin.

on the other hand, a faster spooling turbo will have its benefits on the street. great throttle response and less need for downshifting on the highway will be a benefit. but getting off the line will be a lot harder since the turbo will break the tires loose much sooner in the rpm range.

you assume to much...