Turbo GT, Injectors and 2 bar MAP Options

[Qucifer]

Hello everyone, I have a question relating to the turbo system I will be installing on my car here shortly. From he stuff I have read, when turbo charging the 5sfe, it is possible to run 7psi on the stock motor by adding 360cc injectors, and a 2 bar map sensor and a fuel pump without having to run a piggyback ecu. Is this true? If so, does anyone have the factory part number for the 360's, and the 2 bar MAP?

Another question. When using a FMU instead of injectors and a 2 bar MAP, what steps do you take to keep the stock MAP sensor from seeing boost pressure. I have read that you use a couple of check valves, but am unsure of the configuration. Any guidance will be helpful.

[CaliJeff]

stock 360 injectors i believe are side mount. the 5sfe injectors are top mount, hence they will not fit. stick with the 415's. u will need to get a piggyback ecu, otherwise ur car will idle like crap, and u may also possibly blow up the engine. i wouldn't bother gettin a brand new 2 bar map sensor form the dealer, they will ask around 270. u can get a used one for around 40-70. there is also 2 different part numbers, one which goes to the mr2, and one to the alltrac.

[Qucifer]

The injectors in the Burien kit are Toyota 360's, but they dont list a part number that I can find. Also they dont list a part number for the MAP sensor. That kit is made to run on the 5sfe unintercooled with 5-7psi. I have everything else, I just need the injectors and the MAP. Does anybody know the Denso part number for these things maybe?

[CaliJeff]

check my profile.

[Qucifer]

How are you controlling your timing curve under boost?

[1bwilson]

Id look for a set of injectors slightly larger then the 360's. Manny has already said they will run out on you but if your running stock boost you might be ok. For stock boost and timing You shouldnt see "too" much at 7psi, colder plugs will help and may possibly be enough. You can also run a water/meth injection settup.

Edit, Manny had 315's I believe so you might be ok there aswell. I can say that running my car as it is right now I have 315's, colder plugs and nothing else. Ive only driven a few miles, well maybe 20 miles total, and I havent had any issues with timing. I know this is VERY little milage to gather any viable information on but it is more then none atm.

This post has been edited by 1bwilson: Nov 4, 2007 - 3:54 PM

[Qucifer]

1bWilson, are you running and intercooler? I am trying to copy the fuel setup from the Burien kit, but I will be using a Garret t25, and a small front mount intercooler. I know the burien kit did not have an intercooler, so I hope have an advantage there. I am only trying to run 7psi, so I want to do as little as possible to reach that goal safely.

[CaliJeff]

there has been many cases where there wasnt an intercooler, that the engine blew up as well, it is necessary, along with a bpv or bov.

[1bwilson]

Yes Im running a intercooler. Please keep in mind that the burien kit was the most basic of turbo kits. I dont know of anyone who is still using the kit and have seen very few people who even had it at.

It didnt include a intercooler, but should have.

It didnt include something to fix the timing issue, but should have.

Its not a turbo kit developed by Toyota, its just a kit a group of people at the Burien Toyota dealership designed and built for their line of products. Its not perfect (far from it infact) and they never claimed to be. Im not saying your assuming its backed by Toyota, Im just pointing this out because it seems that some people make that assumption.

If your planning on running very small boost I think your on the right path, do your homework (I see you are working on that) and youll get all the answers your looking for.

[1bwilson]

Heres a quote I found from a DIY turbo nissan website. Im not sure what some of the engine codes are but it might help a little bit to get you on the right path to a slightly larger injector.

Fuel/Management:
Injectors - Get injectors to match your boost level. Below 12psi, 370ccs will work. 34lb (360cc) MSDs are a good choice for top-feed people (B15), 370s from any other SR do nicely for side-feed people (B13/14). For higher boost, 50lb MSDs (B15) do nicely. Most B13/14 people get a top-feed fuel rail when they get to needing more than 370s. I believe JWT can help you out, or whatever source you may be able to find. I've heard of people making their own.

[Qucifer]

Thanks for the info guys. Here are a few pics of the front mount intercooler I am building for my kit.

Took a stock Eclipse side-mount and am modifying it. Cut the old end tanks off.








Cut and bend new pieces for the new end tanks to make it a front mount.








Fit and tack weld.






This is as far as I got today. The last 2 pics are of the templates for the final pieces

[lubu]

Nice work!!!

[Qucifer]

Thanks Lubu. I will post more pics of it when I finish it.

[presure2]

Thanks for the info guys. Here are a few pics of the front mount intercooler I am building for my kit.

Took a stock Eclipse side-mount and am modifying it. Cut the old end tanks off.








Cut and bend new pieces for the new end tanks to make it a front mount.








Fit and tack weld.






This is as far as I got today. The last 2 pics are of the templates for the final pieces

VERY nice.
its a shame your bothering with such a small, unefficent intercooler core to start with.

[Qucifer]

You read my mind Pressure2, but since I only plan on boosting 6psi, I figured it would be fine. Ive had this intercooler laying around for a couple of years, and when I decided to turbo my celica about 2 weeks ago, I figured I would make use of it.

Im still on the hunt for the 360cc injectors. I have a part number for the 2 bar MAP sensor, so I can order that, but the injectors are what I cant identify.
Since I cant find the injectors, its looking like I will be running my 10:1 FMU and some check valves. If I do that I am going to have to find a 5psi Wastegate actuator since the reliability will be questionable beyond that.

[presure2]

You read my mind Pressure2, but since I only plan on boosting 6psi, I figured it would be fine. Ive had this intercooler laying around for a couple of years, and when I decided to turbo my celica about 2 weeks ago, I figured I would make use of it.

Im still on the hunt for the 360cc injectors. I have a part number for the 2 bar MAP sensor, so I can order that, but the injectors are what I cant identify.
Since I cant find the injectors, its looking like I will be running my 10:1 FMU and some check valves. If I do that I am going to have to find a 5psi Wastegate actuator since the reliability will be questionable beyond that.

i would REALLY stay awy from the FMU.
with a 10:1 ratio, your looking at making close to 100psi of rail pressure @ 5psi of boost.
theres no way your pump, rail and lines can keep up with that.
in a worse case, run a set of 315s on LOW boost (under 7 psi) till you can get larger ones.
with intercoolers selling all day on ebay for under 100$, i would upgrade ASAP.
that mini cooler is gonna heat soak almost instantly.

[Qucifer]

The fuel rail pressure is definitely a concern of mine, and so I am reluctant to use an FMU. Other guys are running 12:1 FMU's at 7psi successfully, so I figured at least if I ran a 10:1 and 5psi, I would be a little better of than they are.

This intercooler will be fine. While the core is small, it is over 4" thick. When I was a DSM guy, I found a company that would slap larger end tanks on these intercoolers, and up the inlet and outlet pipes to 2". They would bolt up in the stock location on the DSM's, and support 300whp. I am shooting for maybe 175 if I am lucky, which is well within the flow and cooling limits of this core.

[presure2]

The fuel rail pressure is definitely a concern of mine, and so I am reluctant to use an FMU. Other guys are running 12:1 FMU's at 7psi successfully, so I figured at least if I ran a 10:1 and 5psi, I would be a little better of than they are.

ive yet to see a 5s guy use one "successfully".
guess it depends on your definition of "successfull" and/or "reliable"

[Qucifer]

You make a good point, and I want something that will work within the limits of me engine, safely. It looks like I will be getting bigger injectors, and breaking out the 5 knob SAFC.