beams head on 3s-gtehe vvt-i Options

[wrathc5525]

i was doing some research and noticed that pretty much the only difference between the beams 3w-ge and the 3s-gte is that the 3s-ge has the vvt-i and producing about 197 hp compared to the 3s-gte that has no vvt-i but a turbo putting it at about 225hp. does anyone know of anyone that has tries to take the vvt-i head off from the beams motor and put it on the 3s-gte

[Supersprynt]

How would you control the VVTI?

[playr158]

better idea.....take the turbo off the 3sgte...and put it on the beams.

[Supersprynt]

Agreed.

[devilsden97]

better idea.....take the turbo off the 3sgte...and put it on the beams.

I believe this idea was knocked around, and there was an issue with the VVTi, and the boost interaction. (grant it i dont know as much as many members here, but it doesnt sound like an awsome idea. ie: amount of time to get it to work flawlessly) The beams motor is high compression, (10:1?) while the 3s is low compression (9.0:1?)

Because of the increased presure from boost, don't low compression engines handle it better?

This post has been edited by devilsden97: Dec 20, 2007 - 11:09 AM

[Supersprynt]

It's been done for a long time now. Altezza's been doing it since they came out.

The 3sgte is 8.5:1 and I think the Beams 3sge is 11:1.

Putting a turbo on a Beams 3sge or any VVTLI motor is the same as putting one on a Vtec honda, or MIVEC Mitsubishi.

This post has been edited by Supersprynt: Dec 20, 2007 - 11:15 AM

[devilsden97]

It's been done for a long time now. Altezza's been doing it since they came out.

The 3sgte is 8.5:1 and I think the Beams 3sge is 11:1.

Putting a turbo on a Beams 3sge or any VVTLI motor is the same as putting one on a Vtec honda, or MIVEC Mitsubishi.

This post has been edited by Supersprynt: Today, 11:15 AM

I think 11:1+ compression are race motors.

Does the black top altezza motor have a compression that is similar to the red top tho?

[playr158]

you can boost a high CR motor (New celicas for that matter as well)

high compression helps with off boost driveability, as well as you make the "same" amount of power as a lower CR motor with a lower boost level on a high CR motor
Its all in the ability to tune your timing and fuel.

In my build i'll actually be raising the CR of the 3sgte to ~9.5:1 almost.

This post has been edited by playr158: Dec 20, 2007 - 11:33 AM

[Supersprynt]

Race engines? What?

To quote the quite often overlooked info section on this sites homepage:

Some people wonder if the 3S-GE engine will be the same as the 3S-GTE if you add a turbo to it. It will not be the same. The 3S-GE engine with VVT-i has a compression ratio of 11.0:1 and the 3S-GE without VVT-i has a compression ratio of 10.3:1, while the 3S-GTE engine has a compression ratio of 8.5:1

[stetsonaw]

i had a guy (180sx and jeep builder) tell me that you need the low compression to turbo, and i told him that he was out of his mind, that i could run a turbo at a 10.3:1 CR. he was saying that i was going to have to lower my CR by changing out the pistons and rods, and making other changes, is that correct?

and what you're saying, if i'm correct, is that you can successfully boost a beams, black or red top?

[Supersprynt]

Turbo'ing any N/A motor is decreasing it's reliability. The chances of something going awry, and increasing the cost and upkeep of the motor increases with the compression ratio. Is it safer to boost a lower compression motor, yeah, but is it necessary, no. The motor is under more pressure and thus, a pop is at a higher risk.

To go back to topic, putting a VVTL(i) head on a 3sgte would not work, there would be no way to control it w/o the proper ecu.

This post has been edited by Supersprynt: Dec 20, 2007 - 12:11 PM

[playr158]

if you want beams head on a 3sgte motor, you need a full standalone ecu capable of controlling all included operations + a really really really good tuner.

[x_itchy_b_x]

gen 2 3sgte is 8.8:1

in my head ive always regarded the beams head on a 3sgte as the ultimate HP maker.
AEM can control any sensor, so thats no problem.

[Supersprynt]

I've seen both 8.8 and 8.5. The power primer even says conflicting info, but this could just be a typo.

1st gen 3s: 8.5, 2nd gen 8.8, 3rd: 8.5.

This post has been edited by Supersprynt: Dec 20, 2007 - 3:02 PM

[azian_advanced]

in these forums, i've only seen two boosted beams celicas.

This post has been edited by azian_advanced: Dec 20, 2007 - 4:35 PM

[devilsden97]

^want to see links (not for proof, just because its an interesting topic, and id like to see more)

[azian_advanced]

well, i remember reading about it at some point a couple of years ago..

ok i found two. but the one i had in mind is not one of these two, i can't find it.

anyway.....


1.

HKS SS-III Celica Turbo






2.

SLiCK Magazine Ireland 1998 SS-III Beams Turbo




^if you check out the slick mag website, it writes about the mods (turbo) done on this car. couldn't find any engine pics.


edit: Added more info

3.

SXE-10 Altezza Black Top

(TRUST) TD-04H turbine, intercooler and muffler
(BLITZ) 525ccI/J and SBC-iD
(APEX) Power FC
(Toyota) Pure positive catalyst
(RH9) Fuel pump

Boost pressure 0.70→0.64kg/p
276.2ps 34.0kgm









4.

Mizukoshi ST202

SPEC

2.2 KIT and stainless steel EX [mani], one off muffler
(TODA) IN268°VVTi corresponding cam
(HKS) EX272° cam, F [kon] V professional
(APEX) RX-6B TCW77 turbine, R west gate
(Toyota) Pure positive catalyst
(NISSAN) GTR [hueeruponpu]
(SARD) 1000ccI/J
([orishi] ゙ null) One off intercooler, oil cooler
(BLITZ) SBC-iD

Boost pressure 1.42→1.31kg/p
398.1ps 42.1kgm








5.

SPEC

(TRUST) TD-04H turbine KIT reforming e management original data






This post has been edited by azian_advanced: Jul 1, 2009 - 1:50 AM

[massbrandon]

^^ WOW!!!!!

[Junior]

Low compression and turbo's usually go hand in hand because the rods and pistons needed to run high compression and high boost are extremely expensive. Look at the porsche 911, i believe compression is 11:1. Not too sure.

All those who boost their V-Tec and VVTi motors have to disengage their variable valve timing. Variable valve timing has too much cam overlap to properly boost a motor.

[Supersprynt]

Or just control it, V-AFC.