Web Cams Link and Questions, For 5SFE Options

[Celicav]

As you know, Dustin appears to have pioneered the install of this performance camshaft set for the 5SFE. And he has the dyno results to show that it is one of the most kick-ass N/A mods to date. I will probably do it, b/c I'm not so sure I want to hassle with a motor swap or turbo. Just doing this and supplementing with intake, exhaust, headers, and light tuning will probably make me happy.

It is interesting, b/c this part is in the Parts Database on this site, but how long has it been there? In other words, has this option been around for a while and I just did not notice it in the Parts Database (I did a search too)? Or did web cams just develop this for us?

Also, I want to clarify:

Do we actually have to send in our stock cams to Web Cam for them to modify them, or apply the "grind"?? I guess I was a little confused by Dustin's post, b/c he has the pics comparing the stock cams VS the web cams. I guess Dustin just happened to have an extra set of stock cams to compare the web cams with (meaning the two cams are from two different cars). Or, are we actually ordering a new set of performance 294 grind camshafts?? I guess if you have to send them into the company, you will have a down car and you have to know how to get them out.

Web Cams

Once you get on the site, click the "Automotive" link and then go to "Toyota" link. There are no branching links on the site, so that is why I explain.

Thanks for the help!

[presure2]

you send in your cams.
these cams have been around for a LONG time.
D is just one of the first 6th gen guys to throw in a set.
mr2 guys have been getting similar results for years.
these are not NEW cams, they are regrinds of a set of cams you send them. you can get a spare set of cams out of a 93+ celica, camry, or rav4 with the 5s.

[hurley97]

I think it's been around for a while but nobody on this site had thought to get involved with the whole re-shimming of valves and all that crap.

WebCams is run by a bunch of women who really don't care about your time. I suggest if you are going to send them your cams, get delivery confirmation and call them as soon as you get word they've been delivered, otherwise they won't work on your cams for weeks.

On the home page on the left hand side toward the bottom are links to the order forms. There is a regular order form and a custom cam worksheet. Fill out the custom form if you want something other than the grinds listed.

This post has been edited by hurley97: Jan 19, 2008 - 6:54 AM

[Celicav]

I think it's been around for a while but nobody on this site had thought to get involved with the whole re-shimming of valves and all that crap.

WebCams is run by a bunch of women who really don't care about your time. I suggest if you are going to send them your cams, get delivery confirmation and call them as soon as you get word they've been delivered, otherwise they won't work on your cams for weeks.

On the home page on the left hand side toward the bottom are links to the order forms. There is a regular order form and a custom cam worksheet. Fill out the custom form if you want something other than the grinds listed.

lmao on the "bunch of women" running this WebCam business...they may not get the work done, but it's still arousing to think about a "bunch of women" working on a major engine component.

Anyhoo, back to business. So, I explored the "Order Form" on their web page, and to help everyone out and clear any confusion, this is what you have to fill in (with my dumba** questions):

RMA Number (the form says this is important to provide, but I researched the site high and low, and could not find anywhere, including the Toyota part section or anywhere else on the site, mentioning an "RMA Number" specifically. Help! Since Dustin already did this, I'm sure he can fill in the blank here

CUSTOMER INFO: Name, Address, City, State, etc (easy stuff)

Vehicle /Engine Info: Make, Model, Year (I guess I would specify TOYOTA 5SFE 2.2 in the "Model" section, and perhaps include "Celica GT")

Billing Info - There appears to be no fancy, quick system here. The payment methods are specifically: COD Cash, Payment Enclosed, Credit Card, and Call. Then it has this disclosure: "If paying by credit card, we can only ship to the billing address. Call for more info"
Dustin, how did you handle payment?

Items Ordered section

Qty: 1 (since the part desciption says "price per set" (but no price provided!), and you are sending in two cams, I would put "1")

Part #: There is nothing that specifically says "Part #" in the part of the website providing all the info for our cams. I would assume you just provide the "Grind Number" (294 for most of us) and the associated "Hard Weld" #, so that there is no confusion

Description: I plan to restate some of the info already provided, like the make, model, engine, and grind #

Let me know what you all think, ie getting this order form correct and what needs to be changed on it. I think the RMA is my biggest point of confusion. I guess I could just call these "bunch of women" lol

Also, some final nit picky questions for the engine pros. Are reshimming the valves and "doing the cam seals" (Manny quote from another post. I assume this means replace) something a mechanic should mess with (b/c it might require special tools or skill?)?? It sounds that way given Stephanie's tone about it. How much do you think that would cost if I had someone else do it? And for that matter, since I have never even opened up my valve cover before (sad but true, but will soon to paint it! since the Celica is no longer my daily driver, and I have a long commute), how much effort/cost do you think this whole installation/reinstallation project (with associated shimming and cam seals) would cost?? As you can tell, this is probably something I should not try to pull off myself lol, although I do understand the concept of this.

Thanks!!!

This post has been edited by Celicav: Jan 19, 2008 - 11:38 AM

[Batman722]

I called them to ask what they can do and for more info before I sent them out. I asked what grind would be better for my application, they have 2 grinds - the 294 and the 101.

the 194 is for an overall increase in performance made to work with your stock motor and electronics.

the 101 is more for someone who is doing a build and would have larger pistons, borred cylinders, ect (non stock internals)

my choice was the 294.

form ? screw the form

I didn't fill out a form, I was told all I really had to do was include a paper with my info on it when sending the cams - name, make, model, what I wanted for the grind, and billing info. For the billing info I put "credit card payment, call for payment" and listed my phone #. After I tracked the package and knew it was delivered, I called them and they started doing their thing.

for replacing the cam seal and re-shimming the valves, we followed the BGB. There is a link to it here. Read the "valve clearance adjustment" section and you will understand.

edit: also, instead of going through webcams directly like I did, you can send them to import performance parts because they have an account with webcams and can have the cams done by webcams cheaper (about $60 - $75 cheaper).

This post has been edited by Batman722: Jan 19, 2008 - 11:47 PM

[hurley97]

the RMA# is just the grind number. anything else you aren't sure of call and ask them, or just don't fill the the things you don't know. If I were you I'd also fill out the custom cam worksheet just to provide some additional info about your car and what you plan to do with it.

I don't mind that they are a bunch of girls (being a girl myself) but they are kind of bitchy and hard to work with. I had to argue a lot to get the price I got. and if you circle the option to call for payment info they will just put your cams aside and not touch them until you call.

my experience with them was this: I sent them my cams and they received them about a week later. Then two weeks later, after not having heard from them, I called to ask about the progress. They said they haven't started them yet and will do them "this week". I told them I needed them by Weds the following week and they said no problem. I called back Mon to make sure they had shipped them and they said "I don't think we'll be able to get them to you by Wed unless we overnight them and that additional". I said fine, whatever, call me before you ship them. Ok. They called to get payment and said the total would be $710 with the overnight shipping. I argued about my whole bad experience with it all and they brought it down to about $635. I got my cams Wed and a bill for $516.72.

the whole re-shimming of the valves is just a pain in the ass. and I would not attempt to do it if I "have never taken my valve cover off". I did it with a Toyota technician from work and we spent close to 3 hours a day for 2 days doing it. first you have to measure the valve clearance and do a bunch of math to figure out what size shims you need and where, then you have to order shims, then you have to install them, recheck the clearances, probably need to order more shims or switch some shims/cups to make it all work. you have to take the cams out and put them back in (lining up the gear marks and all) 15 times. it gets pretty frustrating. and shims are not as cheap as you would think, my cost was like $6.22 list is $8.29 each shim and you'll probably need like 10 of them. the cam seal is the least of your worries, you put a little grease on it and just bang it into place.

[Celicav]

Wow guys, thanks for the information. I do have the Haynes Manual, and was looking for anything regarding the shims, and lo and behold, it lead me to the checking the valve clearance procedure, and if your valve clearance is off, you have correct it with new shims, and yada yada. So, I'm guessing that with the new grind on the cams, most of your clearances will change, and most of your shims will have to be changed to shorter width ones to get back to the stock clearance? Seems like a pain. And I know the timing belt has to be removed then reinstalled and all the associated mess that goes with it. I def don't have the skills or tools to do this, so finding a good tuner/mechanic will probably be necessary and likely not cheap. I'm sure the labor cost will be more than the cams easily. Now I see why this is one of the reasons no one has done this till now.

[Kwanza26]

I'm sure the labor cost will be more than the cams easily. Now I see why this is one of the reasons no one has done this till now.

Many can do it themselves, it's just that Cams require a bit of tuning to maximize performance. Another issue I personally have is Toyota buckets tend to get noisy regardless of a proper re-shim, so people tend to stay away for cams for multiple reasons. Bolt-ons are just cheaper and easier... but you don't get the same sort of performance from bolt-ons as you would from actually opening up the motor.

[presure2]

Wow guys, thanks for the information. I do have the Haynes Manual, and was looking for anything regarding the shims, and lo and behold, it lead me to the checking the valve clearance procedure, and if your valve clearance is off, you have correct it with new shims, and yada yada. So, I'm guessing that with the new grind on the cams, most of your clearances will change, and most of your shims will have to be changed to shorter width ones to get back to the stock clearance? Seems like a pain. And I know the timing belt has to be removed then reinstalled and all the associated mess that goes with it. I def don't have the skills or tools to do this, so finding a good tuner/mechanic will probably be necessary and likely not cheap. I'm sure the labor cost will be more than the cams easily. Now I see why this is one of the reasons no one has done this till now.

yup, you have it exactly right.

[Celicav]

Wow guys, thanks for the information. I do have the Haynes Manual, and was looking for anything regarding the shims, and lo and behold, it lead me to the checking the valve clearance procedure, and if your valve clearance is off, you have correct it with new shims, and yada yada. So, I'm guessing that with the new grind on the cams, most of your clearances will change, and most of your shims will have to be changed to shorter width ones to get back to the stock clearance? Seems like a pain. And I know the timing belt has to be removed then reinstalled and all the associated mess that goes with it. I def don't have the skills or tools to do this, so finding a good tuner/mechanic will probably be necessary and likely not cheap. I'm sure the labor cost will be more than the cams easily. Now I see why this is one of the reasons no one has done this till now.

yup, you have it exactly right.

I just thought of a way to save yourself some MAD down time with your car and $$ if you plan to have this done with the help of a mechanic or tuner. I'm going to try to source an extra pair of cams on here or a local junkyard for cheap I hope. Perhaps even Ebay. I looked on Toyotaworld, and they are about $200 each! I'm not surprised though.

This way, I only have to take the car to a shop to get the Web Camed pair installed, and don't have to worry about having the car sit at a shop for a while while my existing pair is taking weeks to get done at Web Cam facility. I think sourcing an extra pair inexpensively should offset the piece of mind of less downtime and the potential storage costs a shop may charge for holding your car while the cams are out at Web Cam facility for possibly X amount of weeks getting the grind applied. What do yall think?

[blckcelica95]

^^ thats what im doing

[Batman722]

that's what I did

I had an extra set that I sent out, then when I eventually got them back we set the date for the install.

[Celicav]

that's what I did

I had an extra set that I sent out, then when I eventually got them back we set the date for the install.

Thanks guys. I am just slow, and don't know why I just thought of that. Now, as far as model and years, I want to clarify my options for sourcing the 5SFE camshafts from (please edit as needed):

94-99 Celica GT (and 5th Gen??)
92-96 Camry with the 5SFE (and 97-01??)
99-03 Camry Solara?
2nd Gen MR2?

Is it safest just to focus on getting them from a 6GC? Thanks! What model and year did yall get yours from?

[Batman722]

I know for sure that any 92-99 5s celica cams are the same (NOT the 90-91). As for Camrys, I'm not sure but I'll look it up later today.

[Celicav]

Thanks so much Dustin. BTW where did you end up getting yours from?? I just called my local Toyota dealership for something else, but asked them about junkyards and if they had any used camshafts laying around. The guy was of the opinion that a junkyard will typically not part out motor parts if the motor is not blown...they want to sell the whole engine. I guess that makes sense.

I've been checking Ebay too, and there seems to be some hope there. Could anything there be non OEM?

Thanks for handling all my questions yo.

[goferris]

batman do you still have your extra set of cams? if so why not sell them to him?
also celicav, you aren't too far from the jdmtuning guys are ya? i'm sure they would help ya and they would have the best know how. probably more reliable than any shop.
just a thought.
i would love to get my cams done but i don't have any $$$ for that.

gl on your project

[Celicav]

batman do you still have your extra set of cams? if so why not sell them to him?
also celicav, you aren't too far from the jdmtuning guys are ya? i'm sure they would help ya and they would have the best know how. probably more reliable than any shop.
just a thought.
i would love to get my cams done but i don't have any $$$ for that.

gl on your project

Actually I am about 560 miles from JDM Tuning. I know that for sure b/c I drove to the Colt State Park Meet this past September. I did not come the longest distance, but I drove the longest distance. I don't think I would drive that far just do this project unfortunately.

[Celicav]

Bump.

Dustin, just wondering what model and year you got your cams from, and where? I believe there is something called a Hollander Manual that confirms which parts are identical across the same makes, but different models and years.

[Batman722]

the camry cams are the same also (up to 01 5s)

I got mine form another member who parted out their 5s when they swapped.

let's just be aware of the cost on this...

to have cams welded/reground $600 from webcams
to re-shim the valves (I would guess you need about 10-12 new shims - about $7 each from toyota) about $70
special tools needed - feeler gauges, dial caliper

[Celicav]

the camry cams are the same also (up to 01 5s)

I got mine form another member who parted out their 5s when they swapped.

let's just be aware of the cost on this...

to have cams welded/reground $600 from webcams
to re-shim the valves (I would guess you need about 10-12 new shims - about $7 each from toyota) about $70
special tools needed - feeler gauges, dial caliper

I appreciate the help, and no, the $ is not a problem for me. I think I want to stick N/A, and this sounds like a fairly low risk mod for about 20% gain in HP, which I'm guessing converts to about 165HP at the crank (140HP*1.2)? I only have a catback exhaust and K&N drop in filter at the moment.

I mean, it sounds to me that your car has not changed much except for the power band and fun factor once past 4K RPM, right? I'm sure I may be up around spending one grand or more since I may get a shop to install them, but we shall see. May not be too much bang for the buck. I'm just trying to do my research now, and help anyone else out who may be reading this.

This post has been edited by Celicav: Jan 23, 2008 - 12:04 AM