GM Bailout, What's everyone's take? Options

[blu94gt]

So what does everyone here think of the US government bailing out GM with X billion dollars?

I think it's just plain silly. I do agree that if GM were to go under that roughly 3 million jobs could be lost, and would be a huge hurt to our economy. Realistically though, if they go under then Chrysler and/or Ford or someone else will just absorb them and take control. It's called FREE MARKET, if your business can't make it then you close your doors, the government shouldn't be involved at all. GM obviously can't make a quality car that people want to buy, can't figure out how to not get screwed by the labor unions, and drop all their money into silly projects like the Volt. Plus they waste all kinds of money selling the same exact cars under 4 different brands. Buick Rainer, Chevy Trailblazer, GMC Envoy, Saab 9-7x are all EXACTLY the same with different grilles and lights. What purpose does this serve other than wasting a whole bunch of money in having several different toolsets and suppliers? (all American companies do this, I've never been able to figure it out). Not to mention separate markets around the world.

So say the government bails out GM. They need to then supervise every financial move GM makes down to where they have a lunch meeting, require them to make eco-friendly cars or something like that, loosen the grip of the union, etc. Also to re-brand everything: Cadillac for luxury, Chevy for cars, GMC for trucks. Completely get rid of Pontiac and Saturn. After a few years of this setup, unify the US market lineup with the world market lineup of vehicles. Hopefully Ford and Chrysler would follow suit, I think they would all benefit.

In the end, I hope they don't get bailed out and are allowed to fail.

[forkee]

you want to get rid of people's car options? that doesn't really sound like a free market

free market means no monopolies

decrease the amount of choices and the remaining companies get to set the price to whatever they want

im with you on the bail out though. i dont think the government should bail out anyone. besides the money comes out of our pockets. any type of government plan that pumps more money into the economy is a big mistake. despite dropping gas prices, inflation is inevitable.

[blu94gt]

you want to get rid of people's car options? that doesn't really sound like a free market

free market means no monopolies

decrease the amount of choices and the remaining companies get to set the price to whatever they want

im with you on the bail out though. i dont think the government should bail out anyone. besides the money comes out of our pockets. any type of government plan that pumps more money into the economy is a big mistake. despite dropping gas prices, inflation is inevitable.

I don't want to get rid of their options, but there's a lot of needless spending to manufacture these cars that aren't very different from each other (if at all). The economics wouldn't change because they're all part of GM, there just wouldn't be so many of the same car on the road. Just like when they got rid of Oldsmobile, or Chrysler got rid of Plymouth, I propose the exact same change. GM is moving towards it when they started putting a GM badge on every car a couple years ago.

[njccmd2002]

there will be options. toyota, honda nissan, kia, subaru, etc.

No more gas hoggers. if they want to build suv, fine, but not 1 million of them.

[playr158]

1 million suvs is like nothing....there are a million SUVs in my county alone.


But the GM bailout is crap. If Best Buy started taking a hit nobody would bail them out or if Giant Foods went down nobody would bail them either. Bailing out all these companies is BS...let **** hit the fan so we can start reconstruction already...This is only going to be a short term band-aid where the blood leaks through and eventually you end up in the ER.

This post has been edited by playr158: Nov 17, 2008 - 8:06 AM

[Hanyo]

Bailing out all these companies is BS...let **** hit the fan so we can start reconstruction already...

I'm not sure where you learned your economics from, but if you just let all the companies drop the ball we can go from a slow sloping recession to a fast one. That can cause other normal companies that are thriving normally to go under with no reason.

[mrgrape]

Bailing out all these companies is BS...let **** hit the fan so we can start reconstruction already...

I'm not sure where you learned your economics from, but if you just let all the companies drop the ball we can go from a slow sloping recession to a fast one. That can cause other normal companies that are thriving normally to go under with no reason.

true we will go in a fast recession, but we need to have the market take care of its self. if we do bailout GM, then there will be a LONG RECESSION instead of a short and quick one.
I heavily dont think we should bailout GM.
have JDM take over!

[playr158]

Bailing out all these companies is BS...let **** hit the fan so we can start reconstruction already...

I'm not sure where you learned your economics from, but if you just let all the companies drop the ball we can go from a slow sloping recession to a fast one. That can cause other normal companies that are thriving normally to go under with no reason.

so in your economics, throwing money at the problem works? no that leads to MORE problems. GM is FAR from keeping our economy alive...let it fail if it fails, if the corporation can get their act together and correct the business itself then all the better.

[lagos]

Here is what I dont understand...
They are failing because they make crappy cars that no one wants to buy. If we bail them out, it might help them in the short term, but they will still make crappy cars people dont want to buy.

[Taskbot]

Hahahahahahaha

Wait? Hahahah how can ANYONE bail out a multi-national? So will the UK Bail out Vauxhaul? Germany bail out Opel? Sweden Bail out Saab? Austraillia bail out Holden? South Korea bail out Daewoo?

Hahahahaha.

Okay I know you guys are worried about your economy and all but man. Irony.

So when globalization happened and they moved most of their manufacturing to where they could find cheap labour, it was okay because they were a "multi-national" but all of a sudden when hard times come, they are a pure-blood "American" company who deserves to be bailed out? Hahahah wow.

Sorry, that made me laugh. What a good way to start the morning. In all honesty, I don't think you should pay tax-dollars to bail out a company that made some pretty awful choices when it came to expansion and adjusting to the market.... Though sadly, I would say they did it the best (of the Big 3 at least).

I wonder what will happen to Ford and Chrysler.

[GotToyota]

Here is what I dont understand...
They are failing because they make crappy cars that no one wants to buy. If we bail them out, it might help them in the short term, but they will still make crappy cars people dont want to buy.

Exactly. The hit we would take from them going bankrupt wouldn't hurt us nearly as bad in the long run than throwing billions of dollars to help them out.

[playr158]

long term thinking > short term

[saleeka]

I feel split on this situation. On one hand, the consequences of the failure of GM will obviously have a very negative effect on our economy. On the other hand, I hate the idea of wasting taxpayer (my) dollars on a company that doesn’t make a product I would be willing to purchase.

GM, along with Ford and Chrysler, have made uncompetitive, underachieving vehicles for so long that I can't see them all of a sudden having the American public being fooled into buying their products in the amount they need to survive. I bought a brand new Ford Focus in 2001 on the basis that it was widely considered to be one of the most desirable small cars on sale at that time. Big mistake… The turn signal stalk would break. Sunroof trim refused to stay in place. The “Ford Oxygen Sensor” ECU would fail, resulting in fuel cut off… All were reoccurring problems! I sold that car as fast as I could after the warranty expired. Because of my experience with that car, along with the fact that I’ve now had 5 years and 89,000 miles of 100% trouble free motoring in my 13 year old Toyota leads me to believe I’d be a fool to throw more good money after bad on another domestic car again.

I think it is fair to say that currently some GM products truly are desirable vehicles, such as the Malibu and CTS, but even the cheapest Malibu is still a $22,000 vehicle. There are many equally appealing alternatives when you start spending that kind of money. Most first time new car buyers are still going to be driving cars like the Aveo and Cobalt (no thanks!) if they choose GM…

Even if we do save GM from itself, when will Ford and Chrysler start asking for the same financial aid? Does saving one mean saving all? GM is publicly saying that if they fail, Ford and Chrysler will inevitably fall in their wake because of how interconnected Detroit’s auto industry is. Does this then mean GM will also inevitably fall if Ford or Chrysler fail first?

It seems some economic experts point to bankruptcy as the logical first step, and then come in and offer financial aid if that doesn’t succeed. I’d have to agree. At least with bankruptcy, GM would be forced to change, as opposed to risking who knows how many billions of our tax dollars by handing it over to current GM leadership. GM could very well make the same mistakes over again if serious change isn’t considered, and I don’t have faith that GM will survive if serious change doesn’t occur…

This post has been edited by saleeka: Nov 17, 2008 - 11:31 AM

[Supersprynt]

It's their own fault.

You don't see the government helping the mom & pop shops that get destroyed because Walmart comes into town.

[saleeka]

You know, the thing that I guess really gets me after reading more about this in the news today is this: This bail out money isn't going to go into investing towards the future of GM; it's just to pay back part of maxed out lines of credit, so they still have access to loans in the future. Seems like the Chevy Volt is the car that's either going to go down in history as the car that saved GM or killed it...

[Supersprynt]

I think the Volt is the right direction, but I wouldn't call it what killed it, perhaps the straw that broke the camels back though.

[GriffGirl]

Here is what I dont understand...
They are failing because they make crappy cars that no one wants to buy. If we bail them out, it might help them in the short term, but they will still make crappy cars people dont want to buy.

x3 billion

They did it to themselves by not staying competitive in the market. It sucks and I feel for the families that that directly affects. But for the company as a whole? I couldn't give a rat's ass if it tanks. They did it to themselves and I resent being bamboozled into helping these greedy corporate ****ers out. They need to consider restructuring their administrative staff and at least get what they're paying for if these people are going to have money coming out their asses.

[D-Man]

Here is what I dont understand...
They are failing because they make crappy cars that no one wants to buy. If we bail them out, it might help them in the short term, but they will still make crappy cars people dont want to buy.

Agreed. They will not change their action plan. They will continue to do what they are doing thinking that it's working. As as always, point the blame elsewhere because they are not turning enough profit.

Hahahahahahaha

Wait? Hahahah how can ANYONE bail out a multi-national? So will the UK Bail out Vauxhaul? Germany bail out Opel? Sweden Bail out Saab? Austraillia bail out Holden? South Korea bail out Daewoo?

Hahahahaha.

Okay I know you guys are worried about your economy and all but man. Irony.

So when globalization happened and they moved most of their manufacturing to where they could find cheap labour, it was okay because they were a "multi-national" but all of a sudden when hard times come, they are a pure-blood "American" company who deserves to be bailed out? Hahahah wow.

Sorry, that made me laugh. What a good way to start the morning. In all honesty, I don't think you should pay tax-dollars to bail out a company that made some pretty awful choices when it came to expansion and adjusting to the market.... Though sadly, I would say they did it the best (of the Big 3 at least).

I wonder what will happen to Ford and Chrysler.

+247.36621 ( )
Seriously though. they've been working out of any country they could find cheap labor, Calling it an "American revolution" in their advertisements. Yeah, that's real AMERICAN... any 3rd world country willing for work for a dime a day, making the vehicles... REAL American right there 3 million jobs may be lost. Only 50 will be Americans loosing their jobs, and they'll all be cooperate fat-cat positions that are making the stupid decisions in the first place; blaming it on the fact that importing thousands of tons of vehicles from the other side of the world is too expensive to make profit, but paying a hard working man an honest days pay is even more expensive

Fcuk GM.