Universal race splitter by RT-P and CW Racing Options

[yellowchinaman]

Working along side with Jamie at CW Racing to develop a proper front splitter. (Not a front lip)
Universal for all cars as long as the front end if flat. (This can be achieved with a front lip added on)
This is what we've come up with so far.
Opinions pls?

[808celica]

2pc design possibly?? or even a 4pc in either C/F or Alum

[chacha]

i like it..everytime i save, i could never save enough for your products

[cheela]

i like it..everytime i save, i could never save enough for your products

^ That! LOL! looks great though.

[Boz205]

Looks great!
Would love to see it made and fitted

[abflug]

Does it come under the car so that it's not visible or does it gonna stick out under the front bumper.

[Tigawoods]

1.Tigawoods
lol

but that looks pretty sound so far!
you know im down for one when its out

[Culpable04]

I understand the 2 outer most channels, but the rest of them are not clear to me.

having those channels at any angle other than 0 degrees will create more turbulance under the car, the channels should serve as a guide for the air to escape the underbody of the car faster, not aimed to hit the underbody, so a flat underbody with a REAR diffuser is the " most " effective way.

^ this is how I understand this works, not an attack to your concept, just trying to get some acknowlegde as how this is suppose to work and why.

This post has been edited by Culpable04: Sep 6, 2011 - 9:34 AM

[hatchy_gt-s]

Culp is right having those angles underneath the car will actually cause lift. Also the 2 on the outers are pushing air towards the tire and you want to push air away from the tire.
(Will only work at high rate of speed and if air can even make it to the channels)
If you moved the outer channels inside angle to the mid point of the tire and angled the inner two towards the brakes or change the angle 360 so the ducks push cool air into the engine bay(as long as the road temp is cooler the ambient air)

BUT on most of our cars it wont even matter because for the most part the cars dont see speeds for this to be effective or not.
P.S. If hydroplaning those outer channels would push more water under the tire at high rates of speed.

This post has been edited by hatchy_gt-s: Sep 6, 2011 - 7:37 PM

[yellowchinaman]

Does it come under the car so that it's not visible or does it gonna stick out under the front bumper.

It will stick out front he bumper by about 2 inches yes.
Splitter rods will be included in the kit too.

I understand the 2 outer most channels, but the rest of them are not clear to me.

having those channels at any angle other than 0 degrees will create more turbulance under the car, the channels should serve as a guide for the air to escape the underbody of the car faster, not aimed to hit the underbody, so a flat underbody with a REAR diffuser is the " most " effective way.

^ this is how I understand this works, not an attack to your concept, just trying to get some acknowlegde as how this is suppose to work and why.

Understood. The idea is that the splitter sits lower than the mid section so by having a slope it helps increase the air flow speed up as it passes.
We've done a few more simulations to test this logic. I'll post it up later on.

Culp is right having those angles underneath the car will actually cause lift. Also the 2 on the outers are pushing air towards the tire and you want to push air away from the tire.
(Will only work at high rate of speed and if air can even make it to the channels)
If you moved the outer channels inside angle to the mid point of the tire and angled the inner two towards the brakes or change the angle 360 so the ducks push cool air into the engine bay(as long as the road temp is cooler the ambient air)

BUT on most of our cars it wont even matter because for the most part the cars dont see speeds for this to be effective or not.
P.S. If hydroplaning those outer channels would push more water under the tire at high rates of speed.

I see your point. The idea on the two on the wheels are quite similar to the two main at the rear. Typically a pain splitter is totally flat. The same air passes under directly in front the the tyres are the same volume when hitting the tyres.
Many new cars divert the air by putting a flat panel rite in front of the wheel face. This works by diverting the air away from the wheels but as a result, causes much more turbulence and more drag. So the idea is instead of diverting it down or to the side, the same about out air is directed up and over. The rotation of the wheels push the air out anyway.

[yellowchinaman]

here's a mini write up from CW racing after various simulations from everyone's input.



Design 1. simply a flat plate. Produced
some down force. Would be the most easy
to produce and fit.
Design

Design 2. similar to design 1 but with an
angled tail. Produced approximately 2x the
down force of design 1 and with the benefit
of drag being reduced by 1/2.

Design 3. a very complicated design which
was influenced by comments from members
on forums. The piece would be very
complicated to make and mount due to its
shape. It does however produce over 4x
the down force of design 1. negative point
though is it also produces 3x the drag.

Design 4. a design that id a hybrid of design
1 & 3. not the simplest to make but much
easier than design 3 and should be simpler
to fit. It produces 3x the down force of design
1 and only a fraction more drag.



Design 1. CFD shows quite simple flow due to its
simple design. The swirly bit behind the wheel is the
wake from the tyre.

Design 2. bit more going on. More lower pressure
under the car as there is much more blue. Also
selected flow lines through the rotating wheel. You
can see how the wheel pumps the air out like a jet.

Design 3. lots of 3d flow on this one. You can still
see the swirly bit behind the wheel. Also areas
where the flow separates away from the strakes
in the channel. Also an area in front of the tyre.

Design 4. Lots more laminar flow. Still with the
wake behind the wheel.

[Culpable04]

as expected, the most improvement seems to come from the second one, in order to fully see the effectiveness of it, you need to check for the flow out the back, assign a " standard" diffuser and by keeping said diffuer on the rear standard and only changing between splitters you can see which one has the best flow under the car. I still think a flat spliiter or underbody will be the best here, the 2 outer channels if aimed properly can also be of huge help, instead of having air strike the tires, you can diffuse it to either the side right before the tire or aim it to the brakes.

if you focus on the colors of the flow, you can see how in the rest of them the pressure is low at the splitter but increases as soon as it gets released from it, that's not ideal, you really want a panel that will lower the pressure and release it at the same pressure, because the air still has a long way to go before is release out the back.

this is great technology you have access to, and is nice to see someone using this kind of design for parts, instead of just throwing something together that looks nice but doesn't really perform as it should. I know your prices are not the friendliest around, but if this gets produced and properly, I will be in your list of customers as it will worth every pennie.

[playr158]

Can't say it any better than Culp .
Id like to see the charts of the full, rear diffuser+ front splitter/flow
id be very interested in picking it up

[yellowchinaman]

Thanks culp. You have highlighted some very important. Issues here regarding where and when to release the air. Very much appreciated. The credits should really go to jamie at cw racing. We are merely honoured to bring a vision into production.

[yellowchinaman]

Culp I've been thinking about your point and I guess we should ask what are we trying to achieve here?
I totally agree that for the most effective outcome is to have the air diffuse at some point at the back of the car or out the sides.
At the same time I need to go back to my main objective which is to design and make an effective front splitter.
These designs where to do just that as a stand alone unit and the objective is to make it actually work and not to look pretty like most splitters out there.
If to say the objective was to make a race car with a full under belly and rear diffuser then design 1 will be the best choice.
But I think many track users would mainly buy just a front splitter on it's own and maybe a rear diffuser as extra.
Aside from that, there isn't really a product out there such a a full under belly add on to complete the full set as well secondly not all cars are suited to have a totally flat underside.

So going back to our main objective, I would personally go for option 4 as it's the most effective front splitter add on as a universal part.

This post has been edited by yellowchinaman: Sep 7, 2011 - 3:23 PM

[LimitedGT4]

want one

[hatchy_gt-s]

What Culp is trying to say is you want the windage lines nice and strait with an even low pressure level, like in #2. When you look at #'s 3&4 you see lots of changing force, its uneven pressure changes, the swirls behind the tires all cause small amounts of up force when it reaches the back. I will pay the price for something this nice!

P.S. You could try fins like what you have on the back to channel air aposed to gallies.

This post has been edited by hatchy_gt-s: Sep 7, 2011 - 8:54 PM

[yellowchinaman]

What Culp is trying to say is you want the windage lines nice and strait with an even low pressure level, like in #2. When you look at #'s 3&4 you see lots of changing force, its uneven pressure changes, the swirls behind the tires all cause small amounts of up force when it reaches the back. I will pay the price for something this nice!

P.S. You could try fins like what you have on the back to channel air aposed to gallies.

Very good point. Fins we can do easily. I'll have a look at what a simulation will show.

This post has been edited by yellowchinaman: Sep 8, 2011 - 5:41 AM

[SwissFerdi]

Guys, as much as we might not have much aftermarket support here for Celicas, I must say it's fantastic that somebody is developing a modification such as this for our lowly imports. Granted, this is mostly done for ST205s, but I'm sure these will find an application here. Fantastic work Ray.

This post has been edited by SwissFerdi: Sep 8, 2011 - 8:39 AM

[BonzaiCelica]

I'd be interested in this.

While your at it yellowchinaman, can you get a trd and SS-III wing on your gt4 and see which one provides better downforce?!

[yellowchinaman]

Guys, as much as we might not have much aftermarket support here for Celicas, I must say it's fantastic that somebody is developing a modification such as this for our lowly imports. Granted, this is mostly done for ST205s, but I'm sure these will find an application here. Fantastic work Ray.

The idea is to make this universal for other cars not just for GT4's so this will work for st202's as well. You just need to have a lip so the front is flat.

I'd be interested in this.

While your at it yellowchinaman, can you get a trd and SS-III wing on your gt4 and see which one provides better downforce?!

You mean the difference between GT4 blocks and Euro blocks on a 2 post wing?

[BonzaiCelica]

no Difference between 2 Post Spoiler GT4 Riser Blocks vs TRD Spoiler. And if you have a roof spoiler throw that thing on your car also.

How about the wind drag at the front of the car with the stock gt-4 bumper and c-one lip.

[Boz205]

no Difference between 2 Post Spoiler GT4 Riser Blocks vs TRD Spoiler. And if you have a roof spoiler throw that thing on your car also.

How about the wind drag at the front of the car with the stock gt-4 bumper and c-one lip.

+1

[yellowchinaman]

no Difference between 2 Post Spoiler GT4 Riser Blocks vs TRD Spoiler. And if you have a roof spoiler throw that thing on your car also.

How about the wind drag at the front of the car with the stock gt-4 bumper and c-one lip.

I may have this done later in future as it cost us time and money to have a mock up model made and run a simulation over night.

Meanwhile back to this topic. We're in the process of making a prototype now.

[OOBE]

Will having a 3" downpipe interfere with the fitment?

[yellowchinaman]

Will having a 3" downpipe interfere with the fitment?

from the ST205? no. I have a 3" DP and it doesn't drop beyond the subframe.

[qatar11]

What speeds are we talking about to get the benefit of these splitters?

[OOBE]

^ Dang dude, you still post! It's only a handful of us OGs left. You're like one of the very first people I ever read on an automotive forum in my life. I was very naive back then, lol. Back on topic, any updates?

[OOBE]

Will having a 3" downpipe interfere with the fitment?

from the ST205? no. I have a 3" DP and it doesn't drop beyond the subframe.

Awesome. I'll subscribe to this topic. I love your stuff.

[ricochet1490]

What speeds are we talking about to get the benefit of these splitters?

Very critical . fluid mechanics will tell you that laminar flow is impossible at semi large speeds. laminar only happens at slow velocities. I don't know why everyone is obsessed about laminar flow because it won't happen anyway. What is of large concern however are the spinning vortexes of air at the back. These are called eddy currents and its the reason that tractor trailers and large trucks will buffet your car on the highway. Very high drag associated with those.
I would be down for any of these designs that reduce drag and increase DF. aka #2.
my .02

[BonzaiCelica]

update!!?

[BonzaiCelica]

hello?

[chacha]

im hoping for an update too.

[yellowchinaman]

I havent been in this forum for a while now. Mainly been working on my four and business closed till new years.
The mould is nearly finished and we'll be making a test sample and fiiting it to a track car in late Jan and I'll be able to post some results.

[UndecidedPC9397]

This looks really sweet. interest in seeing the finished product

[BonzaiCelica]

yay.... one month later. where you at???

[Tigawoods]

just a little bump so I dont have to search for it ha

[yellowchinaman]

currently being tweaked before making the final thing. I'm having trouble sourcing some turnbuckles suited for flat panels.
I saw that Nascar rear spoilers use them but I can't get hold of them in the UK.

[hatchy_gt-s]

Most hardware stores carry turnbuckles, I know there not "race car" ones but it doesn't really matter they do the same exact thing.

[yellowchinaman]

Most hardware stores carry turnbuckles, I know there not "race car" ones but it doesn't really matter they do the same exact thing.

I can buy turnbuckles almost anywhere here however the ends are important. Ideally you'd want ends with a wide washer type surface so the force pulling is spread over a wider surface area on both ends or it'll just crack the panel and pop off.
Most hardware stores sells turnbuckels for adjusting tension on cables so the ends are usually ringlets.
This splitter tray creates ALOT of down force and so it needs to be bolted really well to the front end of the car. The rods will help it being dragged under and ripped off which is why I'm being quite specific about what types of turnbuckes needed.

[playr158]

might try www.mcmaster.com

This post has been edited by playr158: Apr 6, 2012 - 2:45 PM

[hatchy_gt-s]

Most hardware stores carry turnbuckles, I know there not "race car" ones but it doesn't really matter they do the same exact thing.

I can buy turnbuckles almost anywhere here however the ends are important. Ideally you'd want ends with a wide washer type surface so the force pulling is spread over a wider surface area on both ends or it'll just crack the panel and pop off.
Most hardware stores sells turnbuckels for adjusting tension on cables so the ends are usually ringlets.
This splitter tray creates ALOT of down force and so it needs to be bolted really well to the front end of the car. The rods will help it being dragged under and ripped off which is why I'm being quite specific about what types of turnbuckes needed.

Ya I know what your talking about you want solid rod bolt aposed to eyebolts.
(I use to work in a hardware store)

might try www.mcmaster.com

Nice find!

These are what im talking about.
Solid rod

This post has been edited by hatchy_gt-s: Apr 6, 2012 - 3:36 PM

[ricochet1490]

might try www.mcmaster.com

lol

[yellowchinaman]

a small update on this.
Here's the first prototype made of fibreglass

[ricochet1490]

now THAT is sexy

[Tigawoods]

[marcov]

Yeah, thats nice!!!!

[ricochet1490]

so we ended up going with number 4 huh?

interesting

[chacha]

RAy....i hope you stay in business for a long time...mad props to your team and you for making the 6gc really stand out.

[BonzaiCelica]

wow awesome stuff!!!

[Box]

Reminds me of a mushroom. A sexy, aerodynamic mushroom.

[ricochet1490]

fo sale? lol

[marcov]

available now??

[yellowchinaman]

available now??

not for a while.
I've not started making these as I have a long line of other projects to work on.
However our main obstacle is sourcing splitter adjustable rods with wide surface contacts so that they don't get ripped off.
The rods are quite expensive and I'm trying to make these affordable but the rods alone are driving the price high.

[marcov]

okay, but what kind of prices are we talking about?
you can pm me if you want.

[Lil-Joe101]

hey chinaman, glad I could help u out with the pics, lol. But I was wondering, judging buy the photo it looks like ur protype carries quite a bit of weight. Considering Im going off of a photo and the fact that it is just the protoype, I could be completely wrong. Wut is the weight looking like right now. and will this splitter be available in CF as well, FRP, or just fiberglass?

[yellowchinaman]

actually the prototype is lighter than my CF bonnet at the moment.
Im thinking of adding another ply of FRP even just to be on the safe side becasue the previous protoype was ripped of and smashed up.

[chacha]

update if possible on the price and time for buying? this should bolt up to the existing holes in the front of the bumper correct? any chance this will come with nuts and bolts along with brackets for installment? will you post up a "how to install" on this product?

[Tigawoods]

I assume this will replace the stock underplastic's right?

[playr158]

That would make sense

[yellowchinaman]

So here it is.




This is going into production in a few weeks time and the estimate price will be £350 for the entire kit in FRP only. Carbon one is too expensive and will only be destroyed in a matter of days however if anyone wants it in carbon they can request it from us.
The kit will consist of.
-1 Universal Under Splitter in FRP
-4 Adjustable turn buckle rods
-16x M4 nuts and bolts
-10x Chimney C Nuts
-10x M6 Bolts

[UndaGrwnD]

that looks very nice!!

will definitely consider it..!

[smkr3w]

Sick! Almost disappointing that 90% of it will be unseen/under-car, because that's a beauty right there

[Tigawoods]

awesome! finally got those turn buckle rods!


how far will it extend out past the front bumper?

^ I guess this will be addressed by fitment pictures

This post has been edited by Tigawoods: Jul 3, 2012 - 7:08 AM

[ricochet1490]

WOW
I'm impressed for sure. wouldn't aluminum be cheaper?

[marcov]

I want one now!!
Awesome Ray!!!

[yellowchinaman]

It should stick out no more than 2.5" from the bottom edge of your lip so we advise. Being universal, the idea is that you can trim the back edge down so it can fit any car.

Aluminium of the same rigidness would be a bit heavier. Also due to the design of the flare making it out of Aluminium would be a PITA cos you'd need to press it out but then again it'll be to thick to press. If it's a plain flat one like APR ones then yes you can make it in alu but this is far more effective than the APR ones.

[chacha]

I would definitely like to look at the fitment pics...or make a installation thread with the pics would be great!!

[yellowchinaman]

In a few weeks time I'll have it installed to my car and write out instructions as well.

[chacha]

[Tigawoods]

In a few weeks time I'll have it installed to my car and write out instructions as well.

has it been a few weeks or am I just impatient

[playr158]

Haha, i cant wait to see fitment pics.
also would you be willing to sell it minus all the nuts and bolts for the US people?
Cheaper shipping and we can easily source that stuff here...

[yellowchinaman]

In a few weeks time I'll have it installed to my car and write out instructions as well.

has it been a few weeks or am I just impatient

I don't think I'll be able to install it any time soon but I've been promised pics by other gen 6 owners who had bought it from me that they'll send me pics when it's done.

Haha, i cant wait to see fitment pics.
also would you be willing to sell it minus all the nuts and bolts for the US people?
Cheaper shipping and we can easily source that stuff here...

Its not going to be that much cheaper and postage alone is going to be a killer if you're prepared to pay. I'm reluctant to send to far places because there is a high risk it gets damaged.

[chacha]

amen RAY...im in...keep me posted...still saving up for your other products...coming closely now.

[yellowchinaman]

Special thanks to Marco in the Netherlands who races in the Time Attack for the pics of his install.
He's yet to fit the front 2 rods and to adjust his suspension but as you can see it works well in combination with our front lip on his GT4.
We'll be getting some more feedback from his trial runs soon.





This post has been edited by yellowchinaman: Sep 11, 2012 - 11:28 AM

[playr158]

I'm liking what i see here!

[Tigawoods]

Yaaay

[UndaGrwnD]

Niceeeeee!!

[ricochet1490]

OMG.....

so no shipping to the west huh?

[yellowchinaman]

Best price I can get to send to US or Canada is 280 pounds on postage alone.

[playr158]

For the US get 3-5 people together, ship to 1 place...split the cost of shipping across the pond...would save monies

[ricochet1490]

Still hav e guys who never received the aluminum under body panel from culpable. Would need to be careful, but it makes sense to ship one package...
For us rhd/racecar guys this should be fun tho lol

[yellowchinaman]

true but its quite a responsibility for who ever wanting to be the middle man

[BonzaiCelica]

i thought this was going to fit like the aluminum underbody panel.

btw get us links to that guys time attack his celica seems interesting!

[chacha]

Ray...do you think the aluminum under panel will have any complications with your underpanel? i would like to see the under side installment of this panel if you got pics




This post has been edited by chacha: Sep 13, 2012 - 1:21 AM

[yellowchinaman]

you would not be able to use the C one tray with this race splitter. The C one tray also curves up as the Gen 6 bumper naturally has a high front end. As you can see the race splitter is flat so you will need a lip or lower bumper with a flat edge for this to work.
Doesn't make sense to fit the splitter over the tray too cos that would be pointless and get in the way of fitting the splitter.

[marcov]

i thought this was going to fit like the aluminum underbody panel.

btw get us links to that guys time attack his celica seems interesting!

Marco's Celica

[yellowchinaman]

final pics thanks to Marco

[SwissFerdi]

That's umm...I've had a crisis. I'm not one for tarting up a gen six, but that is tasty. Nice stuff Ray, looks finely finished. Also, those are some sweet Dutch bricks.

This post has been edited by SwissFerdi: Sep 15, 2012 - 7:08 PM

[yellowchinaman]

I KNOW! I was thinking the same thing too. Why cant our brick work be as good in the UK? Everywhere is like bloody France with the cobble roads.

[Temporary-Failur...]

Marco's Celica

Where you have bought those front indicators? I have never seen those kind of. I have ugly yellows. I want to get rid of them.

[marcov]

Fensport!!



Yeah!!! splitter works!!
Yesterday I was kicked out of my class, because I was driving too fast!
The limit @Circuit park Zandvoort in my class 2.05.
In the qualification laps I hit the 2.04!
No podium this time, but f*ck it, next year I take up against the big boys!

[Boz205]

Yellowchinaman, ship some of these down to the convicts

Please

[playr158]

Marco your car looks good man!
I'd suggest finding a way to block the gap between the bottom of the front lip and the splitter though, looks like you have a 5mm gap or so, which is a bit adverse of an effect.

[yellowchinaman]

Marco
Fantastic news.
Do you have the youtube link?

Fensport!!



Yeah!!! splitter works!!
Yesterday I was kicked out of my class, because I was driving too fast!
The limit @Circuit park Zandvoort in my class 2.05.
In the qualification laps I hit the 2.04!
No podium this time, but f*ck it, next year I take up against the big boys!

Australia? No problem

This post has been edited by yellowchinaman: Sep 17, 2012 - 7:19 AM

[marcov]

I had an onboard camera that filmed the round.
But it was someone else his camera, so I have to wait for it first.
I do have an onboard found of the qualifying round!
He was no match for me, with his Mazda 323!
@12:30 approximately I pass him.
After start / finish I drive a slow lap in order to create a gap.
I pass him the second time on start/finish!

the 7GC is my team mate by the way.



Time Attack

[yellowchinaman]

I had an onboard camera that filmed the round.
But it was someone else his camera, so I have to wait for it first.
I do have an onboard found of the qualifying round!
He was no match for me, with his Mazda 323!
@12:30 approximately I pass him.
After start / finish I drive a slow lap in order to create a gap.
I pass him the second time on start/finish!

the 7GC is my team mate by the way.



Time Attack

you slowed down just to pass him again? Thats so evil Marco.

Yes I remember your team mate with our carbon lip and boot. You can ask him to email me for under car aero.
It needs to be trimmed down more because the front end of the 7GC is a lot shorter.

[SwissFerdi]

Zandvoort, wow! Mijn vader vertelde over hoe hij met z'n broer daar heen ging, in de vroege jaren zestig.

This post has been edited by SwissFerdi: Sep 17, 2012 - 9:30 AM

[yellowchinaman]

Zandvoort, wow! Mijn vader vertelde over hoe hij met z'n broer daar heen ging, in de vroege jaren zestig.

translated
Zandvoort, wow! My father told me about how he and his brother went there in the early sixties.

[marcov]

yeah, it's a great circuit!
I think that the English Time Attack competitors also feel this way!
Every now and then we have serious guests from England there.

Neil Robertson, Bo Nielsen, Bruce Morris, Richard Marshall, Simon Bradford, to name a few.
And yes, even world Time Attack redbrick racing is often seen!

It is unfortunate that our top level is much lower than that of Time Attack in the UK!