Power Loss, Turning up Boost Options

[Island_Racer]

Hello,
I am wondering how i see people talking about turning up boost to 17psi on their CT20's yet no one had specified whether they changed spark plug gap nor retarded timing at all......So i turnt up my boost to 17 psi and was looking to see what happens.....sure enough i lost power on hitting my boost mark and saw leaning out on my gauges. Anyone else had this problem?

So i wanna know what plug gap the stock motor 17 psi users have
also how much to draw on the timing...if that will help

Just as a starting point. o, i doubt it is fuel.....at idle my car shows 30 psi and while driving it has maybe 35-37 psi higher than pressure (aka 5psi boost = 40-42 psi fuel....10 psi boost = 45-47 psi fuel)

This post has been edited by Island_Racer: May 11, 2013 - 10:50 AM

[presure2]

i am running .28 gap IIRC, still using stock heat range plugs. what kind of fuel do you use? that will play a big role, also alot of the guys here run water injection, which REALLY helps.

[Island_Racer]

i am running .28 gap IIRC, still using stock heat range plugs. what kind of fuel do you use? that will play a big role, also alot of the guys here run water injection, which REALLY helps.

Out here we use fuel with octane 87 or 90.....so i been using 90 or E10 90 as some of the stations give E10 90 despite their sign just saying 90 only.

Im gonna try ur gap and see how it goes.

This post has been edited by Island_Racer: May 11, 2013 - 1:42 PM

[presure2]

fuel will have a huge impact on how the ECU responds as far as knock response and pulling timing like your discribing.

I would suggest looking into water injection as you want to turn up the boost, it effectively adds octane and cools combustion temps at the same time, which really helps if you have only 87 or 90 octane fuel.
it is totally normal to notice a diffrence between east coast guys that can get 93 or 94 octane and guys that can only get 91. (or worse, like in your case) the 3rd gen really runs best with 98+ (using the japan octane rating, which from what i've read is about equal to the us 93 or 94 octane.)

[Island_Racer]

fuel will have a huge impact on how the ECU responds as far as knock response and pulling timing like your discribing.

I would suggest looking into water injection as you want to turn up the boost, it effectively adds octane and cools combustion temps at the same time, which really helps if you have only 87 or 90 octane fuel.
it is totally normal to notice a diffrence between east coast guys that can get 93 or 94 octane and guys that can only get 91. (or worse, like in your case) the 3rd gen really runs best with 98+ (using the japan octane rating, which from what i've read is about equal to the us 93 or 94 octane.)

With regard to the leaning out on my afr guage, I have good spark so i wonder now if its possible also that my Injectors are dirty? I might be getting perfect pressure on my rail (which made me not think fuel issue) but that doesnt necessarily mean the injectors are fully functional, maybe they are dirty and not enough fuel gets by the "blockage" during the pulses....It hit me recently i havent serviced this car in forever (no filter changes or anything) and it had been driven a whoooooole lot then put to sit for a loooooooooooong time. So im gonna service the car up first then investigate the injectors.

So is there any reliable way to clean these babies without requiring them to be removed?

[delusionz]

i suggest changing your fuel filter and upgrading your fuel pump to walbro, and do your rotor and cap for good measure

you should still have fuel left on high boost

[Island_Racer]

After servicing the car with new oil and filters the fuel pressure is even higher than before and the gauges are showing a nice rich mixture at full boost....btw, even though my fuel pressure had gone to the right numbers initially, before servicing i noticed that it fell drastically after staying on full throttle, so i assume the rail pressured up but then the dirty filter couldnt maintain good fuel flow....so now after servicing and stuff at 18 psi it even goes into mid 10's, so im gonna put back on my management system to start leaning it out a bit....

[Island_Racer]

Got myself a meth/water injection system to install , now ive read that pre-turbo is good (cooler charged air and increases compressor efficiency), read also pre-throttle body is good as well (cooler charged air and cooler cylinders).....noticed finally, that putting both together using a tee junction is the ultimate .....so question is, how ultimate is it, what works for one doesnt necessarily work for all, so what layout is anyone using with what kind of results??

Currently without the meth/water i have:

CT20B Turbo - 18PSI
FMIC - 20 X 6.5 X 2.5 Core Size
Emanage Blue - Pulled a lot of timing due to heat, etc

and making 260 WHP and 262 WTQ.

I wonder if i get cooling under control how much if can see 10%-15% and safer working conditions....idk

[GMan]

Got myself a meth/water injection system to install ,
now ive read that pre-turbo is good (cooler charged air and increases compressor efficiency),
read also pre-throttle body is good as well (cooler charged air and cooler cylinders)...

Where have you read pre-turbo is better ?
H20 will eat the turbo compressor blades if injected pre-turbo ?
Possible the H2O will collect/condense in the IC You have a BOV ?
May vent the mixture ?

Better after turbo and IC.
(on superchargers it is beneficially to inject pre-sc to help seal the rotor seals)

You are correct it will help to cool the TB.

Found this quickly on Google search.
http://www.alcohol-injection.com/en/conten...njection-nozzle

Read Max More Boost by Corky Bell.
and more info in Forced Induction Performance Tuning
A. Graham Bell.

Both are not a big fan of Water/meth injection, only in cases where
you are octane limited, or limited my competition restrictions. (rally)

WI is a Very controversial subject . YMMV.

Pleasant regards;

[Island_Racer]

Got myself a meth/water injection system to install ,
now ive read that pre-turbo is good (cooler charged air and increases compressor efficiency),
read also pre-throttle body is good as well (cooler charged air and cooler cylinders)...

Where have you read pre-turbo is better ?
H20 will eat the turbo compressor blades if injected pre-turbo ?
Possible the H2O will collect/condense in the IC You have a BOV ?
May vent the mixture ?

Better after turbo and IC.
(on superchargers it is beneficially to inject pre-sc to help seal the rotor seals)

You are correct it will help to cool the TB.

Found this quickly on Google search.
http://www.alcohol-injection.com/en/conten...njection-nozzle

Read Max More Boost by Corky Bell.
and more info in Forced Induction Performance Tuning
A. Graham Bell.

Both are not a big fan of Water/meth injection, only in cases where
you are octane limited, or limited my competition restrictions. (rally)

WI is a Very controversial subject . YMMV.

Pleasant regards;

Well my statement was that pre turbo was good...not saying it was better than anything. Id share the written material i read but for the life of me i dont remember where.

hahaha, funny enough, it was a "devils own" kit i bought...nice

What i had read though (which after reading your link seems similar) just stated that the cooler air would increase the compressors ability to pack more air through the housing and alter the compressor map...it noted your strong point about corrosion but stated that the use of a smaller nozzle to restrict how much actually faces the blades may solve that problem. Also it noted the possible accumulation of it at the bottom of the intercooler as you did, and said again the size of the nozzle has an effect on that

i have 90 octane at best where i am. I was of the impression that 5-6 inches or further from the TB was the option to use but saw that other information and got curious whether it makes sense to try using two together, and now i will be looking through some of what you have shared...

This post has been edited by Island_Racer: Jun 6, 2013 - 10:24 PM

[presure2]

your best bet in this case would be to put it post IC, pre TB, using a meth/water mix, with a 5 or 7gph nozzle.

i can almost garantee that with that setup, you will be able to run 18+psi, without having to do anything to the stock timing map.

[Island_Racer]

your best bet in this case would be to put it post IC, pre TB, using a meth/water mix, with a 5 or 7gph nozzle.

i can almost garantee that with that setup, you will be able to run 18+psi, without having to do anything to the stock timing map.

So ill scrap the idea to go pre turbo and post ic and go just post ic...i'll let you guys know what performance changes occur when i get to a dyno again...

This post has been edited by Island_Racer: Jun 11, 2013 - 10:28 AM