Smaay ! V6 vs. Beams, Let's do this ! Options

[Batman722]

OK, there has been debates left and right about this.
You're a big believer in you're V6, and you should be.
I'm a believer in both.

First, I have respect for a good V6. The 1mz-fe isn't the best IMO, a 3mz-fe is better IMO.
A power of a 1mz-fe comparable to a Beams all day. The power delivery and torque curve is very different, yes but you can never compare a GE head to an FE head.
You have a 1mz/3mz hybrid, that's like saying a hybrid 5s-gte is better than a stock 3sgte.

I have a Beams in my Celica. Bone stock (except an exhaust) with the LSD tranny it came with.
The Beams is great down low and booms after 4K rpms and pulls hard until red line, the advantage of VVT-I with a GE head.

Ease of swap ? Beams in a heartbeat.
The Beams is close to plug and play, you can use a s54 or use the s54 w/lsd with the motor with no custom mounts, no custom anything really.
Reliability ? Beams. Any V6 (1m or 3m) should be rebuilt. You'd be a fool not to, we all know why.
Parts availability ? Both. Beams parts are available in the US. There is virtually no part I couldn't get from another toyota that's used on a Beams.
Power ? 1mz-fe or Beams ? IMO Beams. I have driven the 1m in a Camry, I'm sure it would be more fun in a Celica, until someone proves me wrong the Beams is my answer.
3mz-fe ? all day over a Beams, but cost is much higher.
Cost of swap (1mz-fe) ? Beams is less a landslide. Why ? Well...a 1m motor is cheaper but it gonna need a rebuild - no doubt (always do a compression test first). Most people can't rebuild an engine ($), you should use an e153 with hybrid axles, a custom mount (don't you sell one for around $200 ?), the wiring - for an average person, it's gonna cost them to have someone do it, how about the power steering pump, AC, throttle cable, ect. The Beams is a Celica motor going into a Celica. The only difficult part is wiring, which is piss easy for an average person. There is no custom anything, except maybe a tach adapter or use a stock Beams cluster and no adapter needed.

Overall I would (and did) put a Beams in a Celica over a 1mz-fe.
A 3mz-fe would be better but I don't like the drive by wire set up, problems will arise.
A 2gr would be overkill and would kill our 15-19 year old cars.

[presure2]

I'm not getting involved in an argument in any way, shape, or form, but I do want to share my opinion here. First things first: Ken, VVT-i on the BEAMS, 1MZ, and virtually all if not every new Toyota engine is constantly "on" and constantly adjusting from the moment you turn the key until the moment you kill the engine. It's not set to any specific timing at any specific RPM. It changes depending on throttle position, load, speed, etc. It's not to be confused with Honda's VTEC, Lift on the 2ZZ engine, or even the older VVT (not VVT-i) of the 4A-GE which are all sort of "on" and "off" in a way.

Now for my opinion... Both the BEAMS and the V6 swaps are viable choices for engine swaps. Both are good reliable engines, make considerably more power than the 5S or 7A, and really make the car a lot more fun. For the guys in California that have to pass smog, the V6 really makes a lot more sense. For guys that spend a lot of time on the track where they can keep the engine revved in high RPM's, the BEAMS makes a ton of sense. Me, personally, I want the sort of "brute" power that 300 hp at the wheels feels like, so I'm going to go with a 3rd gen 3S. It's nothing at all against the V6 swap; it's just what I want. And the guys that are doing the V6 swaps, it's what they want. It's not my place to judge, criticize, or tell them that I disagree. It's only my place to offer help where I can.

Here's my final thought on this whole matter. It doesn't matter which engine we put in our cars, as long as we are working to improve Celicas instead of putting GT wings and fake fender vents on Civics. The 3S-GTE is NOT what made the 6th gen chassis special, not will a ton of V6 swaps change the world. What made our chassis special and set it apart from other cars at the time is the AWD. What I'd like to see, as a forum, are AWD conversions. I'd love to see the day when I can go to the projects forum and see a new AWD conversion thread once a week. We have two guys working on it right now and spending their valuable time and money to help further the knowledge to do this conversion. Their labor isn't cheap and they don't ask for anything from the forum, but these guys want to see more conversions as well. I don't care if it's a 2GR or a 3S-GTE powering the wheels, but I'd love to see more conversions across the board.

ding ding ding....ladies, and gentelmen, we have a winner.
/thread.